This morning I sent an email to Poudre Valley Health System employees detailing a new policy that requires them to get a flu shot as a condition of employment.
We will provide the vaccine for free, in the workplace, to employees. When we receive our vaccine supply, we’ll let employees know how long they have to get the shot.
We know this might not be popular with some of our employees, but we’re doing it to protect our patients. Unvaccinated healthcare workers can spread flu to patients, families, visitors and co-workers.
PVHS is not the first health system to do this. More and more hospitals and health systems are adopting similar policies, like this one in Philadelphia chronicled in the Philadelphia Inquirer this week. Last week, the Society for Healthcare Epidemiology in America (SHEA), a group of infectious disease experts, called for mandatory vaccines for all healthcare workers.
The policy allows for medical or religious exemptions, but requires employees seeking those exemptions to have forms signed by their medical provider or clergy, respectively.
Here’s the letter I sent employees:
September 9, 2010
Dear PVHS Employee:
Patient and employee safety are very important at PVHS. With flu season on the way, PVHS is implementing a new policy that requires all PVHS employees to be vaccinated against influenza (flu). We also strongly encourage contracted clinical personnel, students and trainees, and volunteers to be vaccinated.
You may ask why we are making vaccination mandatory. It is a fact that unvaccinated healthcare workers can spread flu to patients, co-workers, families and visitors.
Another fact: The best way to prevent seasonal flu is by getting a seasonal flu vaccination each year. We believe this mandatory measure will help prevent the spread of the influenza virus.
I know this is a bold step. Some may not agree with it. And some may have medical or religious reasons for not getting the vaccine. We have considered and addressed these potential issues in the new PVHS Policy No. IC-41, “Employee Influenza Vaccination Program,” which I encourage you to read.
The policy requires all PVHS employees to be vaccinated against influenza each year. It allows for medical or religious exemptions, but requires employees seeking those exemptions to have forms signed by their medical provider or clergy, respectively. Each request for exemption will be evaluated by Employee Health Services. Failure to get a flu shot or receive an approved exemption will result in disciplinary action.
The good news is that PVHS will provide the seasonal flu vaccine to all PVHS employees, in the workplace, at no cost.
When we have our supply of vaccine, we will notify all employees and designate a start and end date to get the vaccine.
Please review the additional materials attached to this letter. If you have personal concerns that are not addressed in these materials, please contact Employee Health at 624-1950 or 495-8229.
Believe me, I don’t like shots any more than you do. But I know getting my flu shot means doing my part for a healthier PVHS and community. Please do your part by complying with this important policy.
Thanks for all you do to make PVHS world-class!
Sincerely,
Rulon Stacey, FACHE
[...] Leer completo en: New PVHS influenza vaccination policy requires employees get vaccine [...]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_swine_flu_outbreak
I think the link above is a good example of why some people are not happy about this …It seems to me that this should be a choice and not forced upon employees I personally will NEVER get anything resembling a flu shot.
Rulon, I’m sure that you know that this policy presents a real conflict for a number of employees. Many of us choose not to vaccinate due to strongly held moral beliefs that are of similar importance to us as are other people’s religious beliefs. I have communicated my reasons to those who are making the decisions on exemptions and wait for their reply.
That aside, the desire for herd immunity that was communicated to me by employee health is going to be undermined by every person who walks through the doors of PVH or MCR who is not an employee as well as all of the physicians, student nurses, volunteers, and other contract employees over whom PVHS has no authority.
I do understand the motivation behind it. I also know that it is damaging employee moral. I’ve been approached by a number of employees who are jokingly talking about leaving their jobs, taking a prolonged leave of absence, etc. due to this policy. Is that really something we want? Do we care if people get fired or quit because they can’t agree to vaccination without compromising their belief systems?
As I communicated via email to HR, I really have questions about the requirement for a clergy signature to verify a religious exemption as well. The EEOC states that religion is very personal and that religious beliefs that are held by even one person are protected under Title VII. One does not need to have a clergy person sanction his or her religious beliefs for those beliefs to be considered valid and protected by law in the U.S.
Please contact me.
hapi.vaxinfo@gmail.com
Dawn Winkler
Executive Director
Health Advocacy in the Public Interest (HAPI)
Well said Christa, I agree.
Rulon,
I share the concerns so clearly expressed by Christa. In strictly limiting permitted exemptions from vaccination to medical and religious reasons, PVHS is explicitly dismissing those healthcare workers who are agnostic, atheist, or consider themselves spiritual without the desire to affiliate themselves with a recognized religious community, but who may nevertheless have sincere and strongly held philosophic beliefs against vaccination.
“Mandatory immunisation might be justified if it was benign. Although the physical harms from influenza vaccine are generally minor, there are potential psychosocial harms. Mandatory immunisation infringes civil liberty and autonomy. Society commonly recognises the right of people to bodily integrity. Vaccines are invasive, transgressing the traditional boundary of the skin, so there is greater infringement of liberty than from other public health mandates which infringe autonomy, such as helmets or seatbelts. In addition, if those who do not comply face dismissal, this infringes a person’s freedom to work and ensure financial security.
“Mandatory immunisation may alienate many staff and damage morale. Mandatory immunisation devalues staff by treating them as objects, not people….It risks polarising healthcare workers and producing a backlash with opposite consequences to those intended.” (Isaacs and Leask, BMJ 2008; 337:a2140)
I came to work at Poudre Valley Healthcare System in great part because of the reputation this organization has for valuing its employees, celebrating the diversity of its workforce, and soliciting/respecting the thoughts and opinions contributed by its employees for advancement and improvement of the organization. I find it extremely disconcerting and disappointing to see this policy abruptly implemented and announced without any prior discussion or solicitation of feedback from those of us most immediately impacted.
I urge you to consider the certain negative impact on employee morale at PVHS, particularly during a time when we are all experiencing a great deal of stress from both the societal upheavals affecting healthcare nationwide, and from the many recent and near-future changes occurring within PVHS.
At a minimum, please reassess the current policy, with a view toward expanding the permitted exemptions to include employees with philosophic/moral objections.
During new employee orientations, you always made a point of introducing yourself and mentioning that your door is always open and your home telephone number is always available to every employee. I hope that is still true, and that you will listen to the concerns of PVHS employees on this issue with an open mind and heart.
I read on the CDC website that this years vaccine would be a combination of strains, including H1N1.
I opted to not get the H1N1 last year because of all the negative publicity. I did get the seasonal shot, however.
Will the vaccines we get have the H1N1 included?
I completely agree with Christa’s point made above.
In addition:
The Nuremberg Code clearly prevents forcing individuals to have medical treatment against their will, or to participate in the functional equivalent of a vast experiment without fully informed consent. Forced-vaccination is also a violation of International Law, and it directly contravenes most Constitutions, Charters, and Oaths of Office. This is criminal, and these people who promote this by threatening Health Care Workers with the loss of their employment should be sued and/or prosecuted.
Mandatory vaccination programs also violates Articles: 3, 5, 6, 12, and 19 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
I have been proud to work for and be apart of PVHS, but this is incredibly disappointing to me.
Individuals have the right to choose whether or not to be receive vaccines for themselves and/or their children.
Rulon, I want to commend you on taking this step. While there will be obvious difficulty in convincing everyone that this is the right thing to do, I think you will find it hard to find a single person who seeks care from PVHS (patients) to object. After all, we only exist to provide healthcare to the communities we serve. How then could we ever justify infecting (even if unintentionally) even one person with influenza?
We have to move beyond thinking of flu shots as personal protection against the flu and toward thinking of them as protection for our patients. While most of us make the annual calculation of whether the pain of a shot is worse than the chance of acquiring the flu… we must now think of the pain of the shot vs. the chance of acquiring the flu and passing it along to those without immune systems to cope.
Two parts of the Hippocratic Oath should guide us:
1. “to abstain from doing harm” or “first, do no harm”: The fact is that people with the flu are contagious far before they are symptomatic. Therefore, people can and do spread the flu before they can remove themselves from health care environments. By choosing not to get vaccinated, a simultaneous choice is being made to take a chance on infecting those around us.
2. “I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure”: While it is true that most people that get the flu live through it, it is also a fact that about 36,000 people die from it each year. Reducing the chance someone served by PVHS acquires the flu in the first place is far superior to trying to improve their health after infection. Most infection control measures are not voluntary (hand washing, sterile fields, negative pressure rooms, etc), so why should flu prevention be any different?
Thank you for taking this step toward improving the health of our organization and the people it serves.
Mike, I did want to address your mention of the “pain of a shot” being the reason some of us are opposing this measure. That reason was also mentioned in Rulon’s letter to employees.
I certainly cannot speak for all employees, but the pain of the shot has nothing to do with my objection. My objection is based upon the fact that I have been vegan for 22 years and the shot contains gelatin and is grown on chicken eggs. Others with whom I have spoken don’t want to get this immunization due to the components of the vaccine and an objection to injecting those ingredients into their bodies. I’ve not heard anyone mention pain and shots.
I agree with Christa and Christine….
Sadly it is a new vaccine and its safety is not proven yet!!!!
Thank to everyone writing to me with comments and concerns about the new flu vaccination policy.
I want you to know that this PVHS policy was developed by a group of doctors, nurses, infectious disease specialists and others who researched leading healthcare organizations across the country. Even after hearing the group’s recommendation and the evidence behind it, the decision to create the mandatory policy was difficult for senior management. However, evidence shows it is in the best interest of the patient for all healthcare workers to get the flu vaccine.
Recently, groups including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Society for Healthcare Epidemiology of America, Infectious Disease Society of America and the National Patient Safety Foundation have called for mandatory vaccination of healthcare workers. For many years the American Medical Association and the American Nurses Association have encouraged physicians and nurses to get the vaccine.
SHEA and IDSA believe that all workers in healthcare settings, even if they do not directly care for patients, should receive the flu vaccine. They further state a mandatory vaccine program would save lives and should be considered one element of a comprehensive approach to patient safety that includes hand-washing, isolation of infected patients, use of protective equipment, and other prevention methods.
I encourage you to take some time to read information from these organizations. While I realize these policies and recommendations will not necessarily change your personal reasons against the flu vaccine, I ask that you consider the thorough, years-long studies these organizations have done and the evidence-based patient safety practices that will keep PVHS patients healthier this flu season.
This is not the first time PVHS has mandated a vaccination. All employees have to show proof they’ve had a measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine. If they can’t prove prior vaccine, PVHS requires they receive an MMR vaccine.
Our Employee Health group will work with you to address your concerns. And, as the policy states, if you have medical or religious beliefs that conflict with the flu vaccine, you can file an exemption, which will be evaluated by Employee Health.
Let’s keep the dialogue open on this very important issue.
Rulon
I would still like to know if philosophical exemptions will be considered for those who don’t fall into a specific religous category with clergy? Will job termination be the end result for those who do not choose to comply? I am so disappointed in PVH right now.
I think Christa states it all very well.
Regardless of opinions and religious creeds, we work in an environment in which we deliver healthcare to others. Why wouldn’t a health care provider and their employees want to be healthy themselves to effectively provide quality care to others???? While on a personal level, I’m not jumping up and down to get the H1N1, I realize that I work in a hospital and that it comes with the territory of my DESIRED career.
Christa, with all do respect, this is no different than being required to have the MMR and TB prior to working in a health system. Just as an FYI…MMR, which I’m sure you had, is grown in tissue from chick embryos as are others.
I’m personally very content that the system management took this stance.
When did it become wrong to get the flu? People die and become sick every day and that is going to continue, this is life. And as I recall, not too m any serious cases last year.
Why are moral or personal objections to the vaccine not being considered?
There are many of us as already indicated from many of the posts above that will refuse vaccines due to reasons other than medical or religious.
What about the fact that I do not want to inject myself with the ingredients contained in the vaccine (listed at the end of this post)?
In addition, Australia has banned the vaccine for those under 5 years of age due Febrile Seizures. The European Union is launching an investigation due to excessive amounts of narcolepsy with cataplexy being reported after the vaccine.
Rulon, are you prepared to deal with the legal reprucussions and PR issues surrounding firing employees who choose not to be vaccinated?
Vaccine Ingredients:
Inactivated A/California/7/2009(H1N1)v-like virus derived from cell-cultures using dog kidneys. Physorg.com http://www.physorg.com/news175767804.html recently reported that a Swiss authority overseeing medicine and therapeutical products had found bacterial contamination in test batches of the vaccine — a charge that Novartis has denied.
Single-dose vials contain 1 mcg of mercury per 0.5 ml dose
Multi-dose vials contain 25 mcg of mercury per 0.5 ml dose
Egg proteins
Polymyxin (antibiotic)
Neomycin (antibiotic found in many topical medications). Neomycin is in the FDA pregnancy category D. This means that it is known to be harmful to fetuses.
Beta-propiolactone (a disinfectant). According to the EPA: “No information is available on the chronic (long-term), reproductive, developmental, or carcinogenic effects of beta-propiolactone in humans. The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) has classified beta-propiolactone as a Group 2B, possible human carcinogen.”
Nonylphenol ethoxylate (NPE) (a toxic cleaning agent)
“Christa, with all do respect, this is no different than being required to have the MMR and TB prior to working in a health system. Just as an FYI…MMR, which I’m sure you had, is grown in tissue from chick embryos as are others.”
I did have the requisite MMR vaccine prior to working at PVHS because my parents made that choice for me as a child not because I elected it. I am also among the group here who does not provide patient care.
Rulon, is someone going to address my concern regarding the requirement for clergy affirmation of religious beliefs once legal council looks it over?
I meant “counsel” not “council” – oops!
You neglected to include the aluminum and mercury (thimerosal) that are added as preservatives or adjuvants. Need I remind a medical profession school how toxic these metals are?
John and Mike I applaud your posts as you both made excellent points. I also strongly believe that this is the right thing to do and I commend SMG for making this decision even though they knew this would create issues for some people.
The transmission of influenza in the health care setting is a substantial safety concern. Taking this step to protect our patients, staff, and health care providers supports the Vision to provide world-class health care.
People that choose to work in health care have a professional and ethical responsibility to help decrease the spread of this virus to patients and others that could be life threatening.
Also Christa, if you had not received the MMR you would not be employed here as this is also a condition of employment.
Right, as I said above I had the MMR vaccine because my parents elected to vaccinate me as a child not because I made the choice myself. I am an adult who is making different choices for myself now and I did not agree to any further vaccination as a condition of my employment when I began work here.
Both you and John mention the fact that we have all chosen to work in health care. Nothing about our industry being health care exempts PVHS from complying with EEOC guidelines on religious discrimination however. I presume that is why PVHS is allowing for religious exemption for employees whose religious beliefs preclude this vaccination.
Religion is defined in the EEOC’s compliance’s manual on religious discrimination as including “non-theistic moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.” For that reason, I can’t understand why we are allowing religious exemptions as signed by clergy yet disallowing personal exemptions from employees who have consistently stated their ethical beliefs as reason for refusing the vaccine. (http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/religion.pdf)
Apply it equally. Either allow religious and personal exemptions or say that no one is exempt because you are more concerned with potential patient exposure than potential religious discrimination claims.
I’m truly not trying to be argumentative. I just feel strongly about this issue and, until I get a response to the concerns I posed to management a week ago when I heard about this new policy, I remain worried and unsure what my future at PVHS holds.
If I am not mistaken, the fundamental difference here is that we were advised that immunisations like MMR and TB were a requirement PRIOR to acceptance of a position with PVHS. We were then able to make the choice to either accept and comply with the requirements or we had the option to decline the employment offer.
In this instance we are not given that opportunity. When we were offered a position mandatory flu shots was NOT a requirement. Now we are told we must comply or our employment will be terminated.
For a health system that claims it values it’s employees, this step will create no more than a large number of disgruntled employees who feel they are not being treated as the valuable individuals that they are – but just part of a business that lumps all it’s employees in one big basket.
As an individual, who has done extensive research on the flu vaccine and will choose not to participate in this campaign, can I expect to have my services terminated?
This whole matter needs to be re-thought. It is creating a rift between employees and the SMG that needs to be addressed now before it become irrepairable.
I wish other places would do the same. As an asthmatic pregnant woman, I want to protect myself, my baby, and my family. Personally, if I end up in the hospital because you got me sick because you refused a vaccine for personal beliefs and the strain mutated and got me I consider that assault and battery. No thanks! If you are allergic, have autoimmune issues, or religious observance is involved that’s one thing. Otherwise, it’s selfish, in my opinion. The door swings both ways. If you don’t like it you can always leave. It might sound harsh, but my family and my patients are more important.
Mutated influenza virii are not the result of unvaccinated care providers.
Measures like vaccination, antibacterial soap, etc. are accelerating the mutation of these viruses and bacteria,
Which is why we’re in dire straits with antibiotics — the bugs can evolve *much* faster than vaccines or antibiotics.
Strains that are resistant to the H1N1 vaccine rolling out this year were detected last year, and this evolutionary pressure certainly isn’t coming from unvaccinated people. Your fears are understandable, but misplaced.
Christa bases her opposition to mandated vaccination on her personal beliefs and values, but as a patient with a chronic respiratory condition without the choice of a caregiver when I am hospitalized–where are my rights?
Obviously she is selfishly concerned about her rights as an employee but where are my protected rights as a patient?
Will she give me the choice to decide if I want to receive care from her since she didn’t get a vaccination based not on a medical condition but because she doesn’t believe in vaccinations?
As a patient, I believe I should have the right to have my safety protected as well and that I should have the right to choose if someone who elects, based on a non-medical reason not to have this vaccine when others have taken this seriously enough to protect themselves as well as my health.
Are her protected rights from the EEOC more important than my potential exposure to influenza and the additional complications that I could go through as a result of her putting my and other patients as well as her coworkers at risk? It seems like an entitlement to me that she really needs to reflect on regarding her motivations. If the employee morale is really that bad, perhaps it is her that is promoting this negative environment as well. Most of the caregivers I have had want to protect me from more harm, not promote more illness-and I am so thankful for that. Maybe an examination of the career choice would be appropriate.
As I stated above, I am not a healthcare provider. I have no patient care duties in my role at PVHS.
I’m sorry that this is causing you stress as well. I hope that we can all show compassion for one another and not resort to personal attacks even if we disagree strongly. I do understand your concerns. I wish that vaccination were innocuous enough to me that I could just get the vaccine to assuage them.
I am not promoting poor employee morale, however. I don’t think that PVHS has had poor employee morale prior to this. This particular issue is causing a lot of grief for a lot of employees. Not all of them are willing to put their necks on the line and risk getting fired. I realize that I am taking that risk by being this outspoken.
Someone was in my work email over the weekend. I can tell because my outgoing signature was changed by someone other than me between Friday night and this morning. I, too, have a family to think about. Losing my job has me up at night stressed and scared but I believe that it is the right thing to do to be open and honest about our concerns in the hopes that we can actually have the dialog that Rulon suggested without suggesting that the people who disagree should simply go away or are selfish human beings.
I do take patient safety seriously. I am meticulous about hand washing. I don’t come to work sick; I am rarely sick actually. I do understand that one can be infectious prior to showing symptoms. I do also understand that one can come down with influenza even if one has been vaccinated.
Please understand that PVHS is not requiring everyone who cares for you to be vaccinated. Physicians who care for patients as contract employees with privileges are not required to get the vaccine. Student nurses are not required; volunteers are not required. If they are serious about this they should revoke privileges for physicians who won’t vaccinate, for instance.
Would you have the same objection about employees who are being granted exemptions from the vaccine for religious reasons? PVHS will allow them to keep working there and providing your care if they are direct patient care providers.
Elsi I understand your concern and I’m sorry you have to go through all those respiratory problems. However, you’re makign the assumption that people who are sick are coming to work.
You’re not at any less of a risk because our employees are all vaccinated because, just like ANY other illness, if an employee has the flu, they won’t be coming to work. Thus, you will not be exposed.
“Are her protected rights from the EEOC more important than my potential exposure to influenza.”
–Yes! Even if you were in danger of exposure, you can’t trash everyone’s rights because you’re afraid of getting sick. With this logic, healthcare organizations shouldn’t hire anyone with ANY health probelms.
It’s a moot point anyway because, as previously stated, anyone who does get the flu won’t be at work to expose you.
I’m sorry Becki -
So, what you are saying is that everyone should be subjecting themselves to the flu shot in order to protect you?
How can anyone who has the flu make you sick if you have had the shot – the shot that you believe makes you immune to contracting the illness?
If you, or anyone else is concerned about contracting the flu then you should be the ones having the flu shot.
Your point makes no sense at all. Sorry.
Thank you Debbie!!! Well said!!! I have been so upset about this whole thing and have been trying to find the right words to say. I have not been sick since I was 12 years old (now 30
and have never had the flu vaccine..EVER.
I do believe if people are so concerned about getting the flu, then YOU get the vaccine and you should be fine. I’m not worried about it, therefore I’m NOT getting the vaccine.
I have yet to have a patient say “Thanks for getting your vaccines.” I have not gone to work sick either…because I haven’t been and if I was sick I bet I would stay home.
There you have it!
Please look up herd immunity and how it works.
Obviously herd immunity doesn’t apply here since physicians, volunteers, student nurses, patients, visitors, pharm reps, medical sales reps, contractors are not required to have the flu/H1N1 vaccine. So your herd immunity theory isn’t valid in this case
“The term “herd immunity: first appeared in a 1923 journal article and a leading 1935 epidemiology textbook elaborated on it. Some health officials had begun to formally incorporate the concept of herd immunity into their immunization programming around that time … Edward Godfrey, a NY State administrator… cautioned that this was a mere hypothesis… it was difficult to validate the theory empirically… Whether these are the proper percentages needed to control the disease… has never been completely proved. However, they are the levels generally accetped and for lack of any other we must perforce accept them until some future controlled study gives us a definite answer.”
[State of Immunity, James Colgrove, page 158]
Christa, I am in complete agreement with you!!! There are a lot of employees on that side of the fence with you.
And Becki, be sure you do your research on what is actually contained in the vaccine. Fermaldihyde, Aluminum, MSG, Mercury, (yes, all flu vaccines this year with H1N1 contain mercury) and be sure you weigh the benefits and risks to both you and your unborn child.
I got the flu in 2001 when pregnant with my first child. WE almost died. I’ll take my chances with the vaccine.
Becki, I understand that you will ‘take your chances’ and I respect your viewpoint. You have the OPTION to take the vaccine and the rest of us respect that you choose to take it.
What we are trying to say here is that we would like to have that option and not be threatened with our jobs if we don’t comply. Many of us do not agree with the vaccine for various reasons as stated in the posts on this blog.
Ultimately everyone has to make a decision for what they believe is best for themselves and their family.
Did you happen to get the flu vaccine in 2001 when you were pregnant? If not, how come since you seem to feel so strongly about it now? If yes, then it just shows the flu vaccine doesn’t always work. What are you going to do when you have to take care of patients that haven’t been vaccinated…will it be assault and battery if they pass on the flu to you or just if your fellow co worker do? I am also an asthmatic who was pregnant twice in the ED and did not receive the flu vaccine either time and universal precautions seemed to work fine for me.
As will I by NOT!
I wrote out a post on the more recent blog entry about this issue and it was deleted. “Let’s keep the dialogue open…” apparently was just a metaphor.
“Personally, if I end up in the hospital because you got me sick because you refused a vaccine for personal beliefs and the strain mutated and got me I consider that assault and battery.”
-This has to be the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read. Seriously. It’s the flu. This isn’t the plague. This isn’t Hep C. It’s an illness that is harmless for 99% of the people that get it. Your chances of killing me in a car accident are astronomically higher than me having severe complications from the flu. Yet, I would never ask you not to drive because it would put me at risk. It’s your choice just like it’s Christa’s choice whether or not to get a flu vaccine. Some things are just not worth trashing people’s freedom.
And if an employee does get the flu (which can happen even with the vaccine), then – surprise! – they won’t be coming to work. It really is quite simple.
Elsie, since you are so concerned about your caregivers having flu vaccinations, did you realize that your PHYSICIANS are not required to have the vaccination, nor are any student nurses, or volunteers, or contractors, or any other person not employed by PVHS including pharmaceutical and medical reps. You don’t seem too concerned about that point.
And yes, Christa’s right to not vaccinate along with the rest of us who do not believe in it for various reasons is just as important as your right to care as a patient.
By no means should our freedoms be taken away for ignorant people.
And the big question here – The whole idea of the vaccine is to provide immunity (along with a whole host of other side effects and potential complications) so if you are so confident in your new found ‘immunity’ why do you care if the rest of us have it or not?
And by the way, Australia has banned the vaccine for children 5 and under due to it causing seizures.
The European Union is also investigating the vaccination in several countries due to it causing narcolepsy.
Becki and Elsi are asking me to risk MY HEALTH to get the vaccine to keep them from getting the flu. That is pretty selfish in my opinion
And I am being told I have to take this flu shot or be fired…no thanks to the flu shot!!
Completely agree with opposition to the mandatory administration of this vaccine. How can it be that the state of Colorado allows personal exemtion to vaccines yet we are forced to receive the vaccine to keep our job. The vaccine has only been out for 1 year. We are experiments to vaccine side effects. Sadly I am not proud to be a part of this mandate.
This is amazing – how many other “mandatory” vaccinations will the beaurecrats decide are necessary? Are you really going to dismiss staff who want to make a basic human rights choice about what goes into their bodies?
How will PVHS SMG protect their staff and patients from patients passing on the flu? – are they going to set up vaccination clinics at building entrances? – Don’t for get ER. You can put a sign up that says “please excuse us for the delay in receiving your potentially lifesaving treatment while we make sure you’ve had your flu shot”
Hold on – what about contractors – we’ll need to set up the vaccination stations at staff entrances and the loading bay too. Put a tattoo machine there at the same time so we can barcode everyone too
I also understand that physicians are exempt from this mandatory directive – please explain why?
They have the closest, most invasive, patient contact in many cases, as well as being in contact with other PVHS staff.. this doesnt make sense.
Perhaps SMG are concerned about the physicians’ being able to afford better legal counsel than the lowly workers?
PVHS makes the ’100 best places to work’ list in 2010 – it’ll be interesting to see where they’ll be in 2011. From what I’ve heard they wont have enough staff to survey. Not only will PVHS lose many of their great staff they will also have trouble filling those vacancies when prospective candidates are advised of this draconian measure.
Way to go SMG – put us all on the same level as communist China and Nazi Germany
I don’t know how far those employees who have expressed a desire to avoid this vaccination are willing to take this, but so you all know, healthcare workers in NY filed a lawsuit last year when that state issued a mandate requiring them all to get the H1N1 vaccine. A judge issued a temporary restraining order (TRO) to stop the mandatory vaccines:
http://lawandbiosciences.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/update-on-new-york-mandatory-h1n1-vaccinations/
Those cases never went to trial beyond the TRO because the state withdrew the mandate.
As a senior manager who was involved in the decision to mandate the flu vaccine, I want to convey this was a tough decision for us. Primarily, because “mandate”is not typically a word we have used in our general culture. But also, because we understand that it might not be a popular or completely accepted position. We talked long and hard about this. As we have for several years. We looked at a great amount of documentation that had already been reviewed and evaluated by a team of healthcare specialists (as Rulon mentioned earlier), and we discussed at length. The final decision came down to “what is best for our patients?” PVHS must take every possible patient safety measure it can as it works to provide world class healthcare. If we, as healthcare providers — at the bedside, in the hospitality department, in administrative offices, or in the clinic — do not do everything we can to prevent further injury or illness while a patient is in our care, then we have failed.
There will always be challenges with every decision that impacts large groups of people. But I know that PVHS is a fair and reasonable employer, and will take into account each and every comment posted here. That does not mean the decision will change, but it does mean we’re listening and working with staff to address concerns, fears, issues. And to get to a reasonableness among our different beliefs.
I am pleased to see people reacting to and talking about this important issue in a public forum; few employers allow this frankness. However, I want to ask that all who write responses, opinions, criticisms on this blog format follow the behavior standards and values that have been set by PVHS. These guides are part of what makes PVHS a good employer. Decisions will not always be popular or accepted by everyone. However, in order to be a part of PVHS, it is important for all of us to treat each other and our patients as we would want to be treated … with compassion, dignity and respect and by having personal integrity in this very public forum.
Keep the comments coming. And, please know, this was not a “Rulon decision.” He supported the hard work that went into the recommendations by several internal and external groups; and he was part of the concensus reached by SMG. Please continue to work with Employee Health about your personal conflicts with this important decision. And, please continue to keep our patients in mind as we quickly approach flu season.
Pam Brock
VP of marketing and strategic planning
Thank you. I appreciate hearing from management that you are making an effort to be compassionate and to listen to the concerns of employees.
I have not meant for any of my posts to be interpreted in a manner that is lacking in respect and hope that they are not taken that way.
I have been frustrated because my manager forewarned us about this policy a week before it was publically announced and I contacted a number of people including employee health, HR, and others who were involved in making this decision to inquire about my particular situation as it relates to this mandate seven days before the policy was announced. I again contacted HR at the request of employee health after the policy was announced.
No one has responded to any of my emails. I understand that it may take a while to sort through the issues and figure them out. I would have loved to have at least heard that, though: “we don’t know yet, but we are looking into it. We will respond to you.” I’m scared, stressed, and feeling like my concerns are being ignored.
I do appreciate hearing that we may all get responses at some point.
Christa,
Please know that I understand and respect your point of view. But, I will always put my family first.
To poster ‘PVHS’
Interesting that “as a senior manager who was involved in the decision” you are not comfortable revealing your identity in a public forum discussing your decision.
Steve, I see that the PVHS post you reference above has been edited to include the poster’s name now. I have screen shot copies of earlier versions of this blog, so I do know that it wasn’t there earlier as well.
To Christa
I noticed the amended post too (with no change in the posting time)
My guess is that the moderators have significant ‘admin’ rights to this blog, especially as my posts were ‘moderated’ for several hours until I posted my question to the moderator
I do applaude you and the few other staff who are willing to stand up for their rights, especially when threatened with the prospect of losing their jobs. I can also understand that there are probably 100′s of PVHS employees reading these posts, with the same concerns but too frightened to speak out. It is sad that an healthcare organization can subject its staff to this kind of mental anguish
I really do hope that SMG reviews their decision making process for this and puts the mandate on hold while they work on addressing their employees’ concerns.
SMG – please remember that you can have all the best facilities and equipment in the country but it’s your employees that provide the patient care that you win the awards for
That was a good read, Christa. Unfortunately, I don’t think your post will last very long for enough people to read it.
To the modertor
I assume my post was too close to the truth for you to publish on this ‘open public forum’
“However, in order to be a part of PVHS, it is important for all of us to treat each other and our patients as we would want to be treated … with compassion, dignity and respect and by having personal integrity in this very public forum.”
I am sorry – I fail to see how employees who are adverse to this policy have been treated with respect by the decision makers.
Yes, we are encouraged to make comments and express our opinions, but we all know that ultimately our voices will fall on deaf ears.
The manner in which this policy was relayed to staff was, in my view, very poor. There was no involvement of the staff that this policy was to affect, no open discussion or even mention of this policy being considered.
I know now that this was because management knew they would be challenged by some of it’s employees.
It is all well and good that management contribute to this discussion board, but it would be appreciated if they would actually address the questions that are being raised.
Christa, I applaud you for your very valid comments and I hope that your questions will be addressed in a timely manner. I too would like to hear a response to the questions that you raised earlier regarding the religion exemption.
I too face the very real fear of having my employment terminated. The stress, worry and depression that this is causing myself and my family is not something that I should be enduring from an employer that truly respects me as a valuable employee.
Well said Becki, Jon, Mike, and Terri. As a person who provides direct patient care, I still elect to get the flu vaccine every year. I have several family members who are immunocompromised, and to not be vaccinated around them is not an option. Especially since I’m exposed to a lot of viruses and other infections in my daily work.
What I would like to know is why we are not offered the pneumovax shot also? Many times, I have gone into a patient’s room, NOT knowing they were on precautions, and was exposed while not wearing a mask and gown. How come I did not know they were on precautions? Because either they were 1. just placed on precautions and the cart was not up there yet, or 2. a nurse, who knew the patient was on precautions, watched me walk in, and then said something even if the cart was not outside yet. Yes, it does happen more often than you would think.
Becki made a point about the issue with her and her unborn child which I won’t rehash again. However, let me turn the table around. How would you like to be the patient, in the hospital, and you are immunocompromised because you are receiving cancer treatment. Your dietary person (for example) came in briefly to deliver your tray. She has not had the flu shot, and she has begun not feeling very good (showing early symptoms of the flu). As she set your tray down on the counter, she breathed on you. Several days later, you got the flu. Remember you are also immunocompromised, not in precautions (which is different).
I will be getting the flu shot again this year like I have the past 15 yrs. It may not protect me 100% because of all the different strains, but at least I’m protecting my family and my patients one way I know how.
Kristin – you are getting the flu shot as a personal decision and that’s fine. PVHS should allow their employees to make that personal decision too – yes OR no.
Flu is only one communicable disease for which there is a vaccination – so where does the mandatory vaccination scheme end?
A question for SMG – how many confirmed flu cases have been reported in the PVHS health system…
a) directly attributed to a patient contracting flu from a PVHS employee
b) a PVHS employee contracting flu from a patient
c) of the number of (a) cases how many were ’caused’ by PHYSICIANS, student nurses, volunteers, contractors, or any other person not employed by PVHS including pharmaceutical and medical reps.
I hope you have these basic decision making metrics available, as making such a drastic, broad ranging mandate without those metrics would be poor management at best
Please contact me if you are interested in fighting this unjust requirement. They fought it successfully in New York and won. This is wrong on so many levels. It’s also been successfully fought in WA state. If you don’t stand up now, the rights of everyone to determine which medical procedures they want to take and those they do not will be gone. ALL medical procedures, including vaccination, carry risk. Employees rights should be protected just like those of parents vaccinating or not vaccinating children in school are. There are medical, religious, and personal beliefs exemptions available for school. Why should it be any different when it comes to a place of employment? Not to mention the evidence of the lack of efficacy of the flu vaccine and its well documented risks. I’m documenting this if it doesn’t get posted.
Dawn Winkler
Executive Director
Health Advocacy in the Public Interest (HAPI)
http://www.hapihealth.com
hapi.vaxinfo@gmail.com
Well said Steve. I completely AGREE
Oh and Kristin,
12 babies died in Argentina during a clincal trial to test a pneumonia vaccine have died in Argentina over the course of the past year.
The study was sponsored by GlaxoSmithKline, and uses children from poor families. According to the Argentine Federation of Health Professionals, the families are “pressured and forced into signing consent forms”.
The vaccine trial is still ongoing despite the denunciations.”
So, go ahead and take your vaccine…
source: Dr Mercola
“Employee”—
I will take my vaccine. I have had the pneumovax before, and I will get it again–every 5 years. I also will get the meningiococcal vaccine again , and I will have my daughter get it too so that she does not die from meningitis if she is exposed at school. I also will get her the flu shot this year as she has received the shot for several years now. I believe that because of the invention of the vaccines that we have today, we do not have the amount of deaths or sickness that we saw even before the Polio vaccine was invented.
I googled Dr. Mercola. Is this the same Dr. Mercola I found on “Quackwatch?” The article titled: “FDA Orders Dr. Joseph Mercola to Stop Illegal Claims” by Stephen Barrett, M.D.
Source: http://www.quackwatch.com/11Ind/mercola.html
I’m not trying to persuade you or tell you that you are wrong or right. I’m just going to do what I believe is right. You do what you believe is right. And we will agree to disagree on vaccines. Plain and simple.
I would also like to say that the cancer patient I mentioned up above was my husband many years ago, but not at this hospital system.
One other time he also got staph. infection in his mediport when a nurse refused to put her hair back during the tapping of his port. One little tiny hair landed on his port, and he had such a horrible staph infection in his main artery that he almost died from it. He was resuscitated, and is still living.
So yes, I do take this discussion personal. This is why.
The argument still goes both ways. My mother is a stage 3B lung cancer patient who is not for vaccinating. She would never hold it against the healthcare workers who take care of her if they don’t receive their flu vaccine. She would on the other hand hope that whomever is taking care of her use universal precautions so as to not spread any infection; wash hands, mask, gloves. I feel that it is our job to know if a patient is on precautions before we walk into that room.
I would never tell anyone they were wrong in making the decision to vaccinate themselves or their families. It is your decision and who am I to stand in your way. I just hope that the same respect for not vaccinating was given to myself and my family. The Colorado law gives individuals the right to make these decisions. It is one of the reasons I love living in CO and the US for that matter….we have the right to make decisions for ourselves; or so I thought.
Kristin,
I am glad to hear your husband is still here with you today
My son was severely brain injured from a vaccine in 1994. You could not pay me enough money to be forced to under go that kind of medical proceedure as a term of employment, not when the vaccine carry certain risks.
I am strongly against this policy! I am also a Registered Nurse. There is no way I am going to be injected with the junk in the flu vaccine, sorry. Not gonna happen, not fair.
BTW….. Until you mandate such a rule, perhaps you should evaluate and study the number of patients coming through the doors with respiratory Illness….who had the flu shot. You will be amazed to see that most are not being protected by the flu and pneu they already get. The flu shot is nothing but a money making scheme by the Pharmaceutical Industry. Health Care is not as much about health as it is for $$$$ making for the Pharmaceutical Industry. No way on the mandate!
I agree to disagree on the vaccination stance.
We all take this personal Kristin; you are not the only one
As for Stephen Barrett, MD and ‘Quackwatch’ Barrett conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist because he had failed the certification exam.
Case: Quackwatch Founder Stephen Barrett loses Major Defamation trial in Hometown in 2005
http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html
Dr Mercola is still a practicing physician
Kristen
Dr. Stephen Barratt, creator of Quackwatch, is bankrupt and possibly going to do some prison time for his unsubstantiated claims and fraudulent activities. So maybe you should think twice before quoting websites. For your refernece: http://www.canlyme.com/quackwatch.html
I hope your daughter doesn’t have a reaction from the Pneumonia vaccine as well, which in last week’s JAMA exposed it as creating a more powerful Pneumonia strain. Become educated before you spew random answers please.
Even mainstream medicine is stating that this year’s flu vaccine has a 22% effectiveness.
Ken
I would like to say that I’m fully capable of making my own decision on whether or not to take the flu vaccine. Can it be guaranteed that I will not become ill, or that there will be no short term or long term complications as a result ot the harmful toxins used in vaccines? I think not! I wold encourage everyone to do their homework on this subject, and I would strongly encourage the policy makers to reconsider this forceful act of a mandatroy vaccine given to the employees of PVHS. Thanks
I don’t understand something I hope someone can clarify for me: If as a health care worker your job is to try to make patients better, not worse, while they’re under your care, why wouldn’t you put aside personal objections for the good of the patient?
If you have issues with requirements, whether it’s a vaccine or some other patient safety measure, designed to help you achieve your primary goal in the line of work you’ve chosen, don’t you at least have to question whether you’re in the right line of work?
As I read comments, I just wanted to add that there was a challege at the Wyoming Supreme Court level when a school district put a family through “religious sincerity” hearings. The family fought, and won, and now in WY, no one can question a family’s religious sincerity when it comes to religious exemptions from vaccines for school. Having clergy sign the religious waiver in this instance to become exempt from getting a flu shot as a condition of employment seems about the same. I guess we’ll just have to fight the fight here in CO, which will be a good thing. A way to finally get it on the books that we have rights when it comes to medical procedures and that no one has authority to question our religious beliefs.
I’m willing to put up a fight. Thanks
I am willing to fight on this as well.
Chris
I also am a healthcare worker. In fact I am a doctor who believes that a patient comes first. That is why I recommend that my patients do not receive the flu shot. It is a poorly studied, badly made vaccine that works in 1 out of 5 cases. The CDC has recently released new statistics on the flu deaths in a year and concluded that the 36000 deaths per year from the flu wasn’t even close. That it is approximately 1200-4600. The study also revealed that 90% of flu deaths occur in populations over 65 years of age with underlying health disorders. In my opinion, the flu shot weakens your immunity temporarily and could make you more susceptible to mild to moderate communicable diseases, which would more likely be passed along to patients.
If you want to fight the flu and lessen its symptoms, I would recommend eating healthy, adding vitamin D, and possible taking a probiotic that can help mucous membranes function better.
Ken,
Your figures are not true. Here’s what the LA Times reported after the CDC’s announcement on that last month:
“The actual average is a little more than 23,000, the agency reported in its Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. But even that figure is misleading, the report added, because the numbers have ranged from as low as 3,300 deaths to nearly 50,000 over the last 30 years. The period in the analysis covers up to 2007 and does not include last year’s H1N1 influenza pandemic.”
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug/27/science/la-sci-flu-deaths-20100827
Here’s where you can read the transcript from the CDC’s call with reporters:
http://www.cdc.gov/media/transcripts/2010/t100826.htm
Dear Chris
When asking if we believe that making our patients better matters, we are simply stating that we are not seeing the promised protection from getting the vaccine, since vaccine failure rates are high. We, hospital employees see that result when most of our really sick patients are those who had a flu shot. We have had flu shots, we have had reactions, even some have server reactions with their children. If we really wanted to protect people we might insist that our employees take good care of them selves by maintaining healthy weight, and exercise daily, eat healthy organic food. Perhaps we can start by insisteing that those who are not at optimum health who have serious potential for illness not work? Perhaps we can have an obesity lay off? Come on…the flu shot is not realistic. It almost never works at even 50%, so mandating it to the people who do value and take impeccible care of their health is ridiculous. Start by laying off the smokers. They are really setting them selves up to getting the flu.
If you are going to make ridiculous mandates….lets get real about who is unhealthy and at high risk….like the obese and the smokers….Once we are real about that maybe I will go along with this ridiculous Phama funding scheme!
Ken,
And to follow up on your other figure, if “the study also revealed that 90% of flu deaths occur in populations over 65 years of age with underlying health disorders,” ( I think it was 89.7%) isn’t that a good reason to vaccinate? To prevent the spread of disease to others whose immune systems are compromised?
By the way, your 22 percent number is low. Do you have a source for that?
Preliminary numbers for last year show it was 62 percent effective, which the CDC says is about on par with previous years.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ACIP/20910
Chris
34,000 deaths a year caused by people driving motor vehicles – so lets vaccinate drivers by taking away their vehicles
15,000+ murders – so lets sedate everyone so that can’t hurt each other
There are better ways to ‘protect’ both patients, visitors and staff than giving them the flu shot – as I’ve said before, where will it end?
Solution: – enforce the procedures that PVHS already has for infection control – hand washing, face masks, isolation when high risk. All proven, all in the best interests of patients and staff – all non invasive. Not to mention they are effective against much more than just the flu
If you want to fight, contact me. hapi.vaxinfo@gmail.com
Dawn
As Christa stated
“EEOC states that religion is very personal and that religious beliefs that are held by even one person are protected under Title VII. One does not need to have a clergy person sanction his or her religious beliefs for those beliefs to be considered valid and protected by law in the U.S.”
And Anon stated
“The Nuremberg Code clearly prevents forcing individuals to have medical treatment against their will, or to participate in the functional equivalent of a vast experiment without fully informed consent. Forced-vaccination is also a violation of International Law, and it directly contravenes most Constitutions, Charters, and Oaths of Office. This is criminal, and these people who promote this by threatening Health Care Workers with the loss of their employment should be sued and/or prosecuted.
Mandatory vaccination programs also violates Articles: 3, 5, 6, 12, and 19 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights”
“George Annas, professor of health law and bioethics at Boston University School of Public Health, adds that “if enough physicians and nurses refuse vaccination, the mandate will be unenforceable, since no responsible public health official would try to close a hospital for failure to comply with the mandate in the midst of a flu epidemic.”” http://lawandbiosciences.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/update-on-new-york-mandatory-h1n1-vaccinations/
Clearly this is no longer a case of what is best for the patient wich would go no further then recomending the vaccine and providing it to employees who decide to recieve it.
This is forced medical treatment. This is in direct violation of OUR RIGHTS! Come on people! Stand up for yourself and make your own decisions! First we allow our government to be currupt, then we slowly do away with all of our rights. If we don’t stand up for them, we are undeserving of them!
My brother is in his thrid year of med school and was required to get the h1n1 vaccine and was ill for a month! I have not received the flu vaccine for a number of years and have not been sick. I believe that vaccines contain harmful ingreidents and that receiving them will cause me greater harm then getting sick. And if I happen to feel ill you can bet I wont be at work! I will continue to not get vaccinated in the future. Furthermore I will continue standing up for my rights as a human and as an employee and if this goes to a lawsuit as it was mentiond by Christa in NY you can bet your boots Ill be along for the ride. The dirrection our country is going sure is dissapointing.
And I fee the same way as Steve “Way to go SMG – put us all on the same level as communist China and Nazi Germany”
When a hospital in Washington State tried to do this, the WA State Nurses Union stepped in and got it stopped. American Nurses Association does not support mandatory vaccination and they filed a brief in support of the WA nurses. Where does the Colorado Nurses Union stand on this issue?
http://www.nursingworld.org/FunctionalMenuCategories/MediaResources/PressReleases/2006/PRWSNA0503068575.aspx
Thank you Chris. I have better things to do than sit here and “argue” with people—especially people who attack each other.
I just said that I will agree to disagree. You don’t like my stance? So be it. I don’t like yours. So be it.
Move on.
Oh and Dr. Ken—all of my doctors and my family’s doctors have recommended the flu vaccine for several years now. I think I would take their recommendation over yours any day.
Most doctors are indoctrinated. Patients should not put blind trust in doctors. They should do much of their own research and ask their doctors specific questions. Dr. Ken recommends asking your doctor to list 4 ingredients in the vaccines. Why don’t you try it? I recommend asking the doctor to bring out the “vaccine manufacturers insert”, and to go over it with you. Or better yet, download it off the internet, read it (or while the document is up on your computer screen do some word searches on “formaldehyde”, “mercury”, “prenatal”, etc.) and bring it to your doctor and ask whether the ingredients are safe. Remember to ask if they’re safe when INJECTED, as opposed to INGESTED.
There are many doctors who do not recommend flu vaccines. You should at least address this contradiction with your doctors. Why should you believe your doctors over the ones who warn against vaccines? Isn’t it possible your doctors don’t know something the anti-vaccine doctors know?
Please look up Dr. Mayer Eisenstein, Dr. Russell Blaylock, Dr. Sherry Tenpenny and Robert Kennedy Jr.
Although we certainly differ in our opinions I have to agree with those who are in favor of the vaccine on one thing: it is pointless for us to spend a bunch of time arguing as to whether influenza vaccination is a wise public health measure. We all likely feel strongly enough about our beliefs one way or the other that it is unlikely that we will convince one another.
SMG apparently has been convinced on the side of vaccination being the better option for patient safety. As I said in my comment on Rulon’s other post, I too can agree to disagree about that.
What I do think we need to hash out is the legality of this mandate. It sounds like there are arguments on both sides of the legal fence (see Rulon’s recent posts entitled “More flu food for thought” and “Thanks for the discussion” and the comments following).
As noted in the articles he posted, this type of mandate has not been taken all the way through the legal system. The legal weaknesses of PVHS’ position are that they are applying the mandate inequitably (to secretaries whose offices are off site yet not to those physicians who are contract employees or who simply have privileges here, for instance) and that they are allowing religious exemptions yet imposing a litmus test as to whether your religious exemption is okay by them.
Jehovah’s Witness? Okay, but prove that you are actually a member of the religion and that this is the official position of the religion with a cleric’s signature. Buddhist? Nope, not all Buddhists avoid vaccination or have religious objections to the components of this vaccine. That isn’t allowable legally.
I don’t know about the person who has been soliciting clients on this blog, but should someone (or a group of people) choose to take this all the way to the Supreme Court, perhaps the precedent will be set then. Perhaps we’ll all get a reprieve while it works its way through the system as well!
WELL SAID CHRISTA.
Thank you.
Ditto
Christa is right – it’s not about whether the vaccine is effective or not….
this is about PVHS ignoring the basic moral, legal and human rights of an individual to make a decision about their own medical treatment. Would we turn away a patient because they dont have a vaccination? What would happen if we did?
One big difference: When you become a health care worker, some things aren’t about “you” anymore. They’re about caring for patients.
Some people don’t become health care workers just for modern medicine…some believe in Chinese medicine, or holistic medicine, or a combination. Just because we don’t believe in the flu vaccine doesn’t mean we don’t care for the patients.
The other big difference is that PVHS can’t control whether people wear seatbelts or use weapons. They can have some control, however, over what requirements they place on employees who have *chosen* a certain line of a work at a certain location.
As Christa stated
“EEOC states that religion is very personal and that religious beliefs that are held by even one person are protected under Title VII. One does not need to have a clergy person sanction his or her religious beliefs for those beliefs to be considered valid and protected by law in the U.S.”
And Anon stated
“The Nuremberg Code clearly prevents forcing individuals to have medical treatment against their will, or to participate in the functional equivalent of a vast experiment without fully informed consent. Forced-vaccination is also a violation of International Law, and it directly contravenes most Constitutions, Charters, and Oaths of Office. This is criminal, and these people who promote this by threatening Health Care Workers with the loss of their employment should be sued and/or prosecuted.
Mandatory vaccination programs also violates Articles: 3, 5, 6, 12, and 19 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights”
“George Annas, professor of health law and bioethics at Boston University School of Public Health, adds that “if enough physicians and nurses refuse vaccination, the mandate will be unenforceable, since no responsible public health official would try to close a hospital for failure to comply with the mandate in the midst of a flu epidemic.”” http://lawandbiosciences.wordpress.com/2009/10/22/update-on-new-york-mandatory-h1n1-vaccinations/
Clearly this is no longer a case of what is best for the patient wich would go no further then recomending the vaccine and providing it to employees who decide to recieve it.
This is forced medical treatment. This is in direct violation of OUR RIGHTS! Come on people! Stand up for yourself and make your own decisions! First we allow our government to be currupt, then we slowly do away with all of our rights. If we don’t stand up for them, we are undeserving of them!
My brother is in his thrid year of med school and was required to get the h1n1 vaccine and was ill for a month! I have not received the flu vaccine for a number of years and have not been sick. I believe that vaccines contain harmful ingreidents and that receiving them will cause me greater harm then getting sick. And if I happen to feel ill you can bet I wont be at work! I will continue to not get vaccinated in the future. The dirrection our country is going sure is dissapointing.
The link for the pneumonia study is
http://www.gaia-health.com/articles251/000298-vaccine-pushed-on-infants-causes-drug-resistant-pneumonia.shtml.
Trying to locate the study on the flu vaccine percentages. I read it last week.
Why wasnt my comment posted? Guess it was to brash to be? But what happened to our freedom of speech?! Im willing to fight this as well!
Kristen
Most doctors make a lot of money off of immunizations and kickbacks from pharmaceuticals. I on the other hand spend countless hours studying and reading about both sides of the argument. Ask “your doctors” to name 4 ingredients in the flu vaccine and see which knows what is actually in it. Or maybe you could ask them what level of mercury is in each dose and what the average amount of mercury is recommended in one year per person.
Chris
I don’t feel the LA times is the best way to prove your argument. Try http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20099441
or
http://cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5933a1.htm
for those of you who don’t think it is about money, try:
http://dhhs.gov/asfr/ob/docbudget/2010budgetinbriefg.html
I’m still for following the advice of “my doctors” because one of them also uses holistic approaches as well. Without naming any names, he is a great doctor, and is very well educated on what goes into the flu shots and other vaccines.
Oh and if you read my earlier post correctly about the pneumovax shot, you would see that I was talking about getting it for MYSELF. Not my daughter. She doesn’t need it. She doesn’t work in a healthcare setting. She is also almost 17, and I think the meningococcal vaccine would be beneficial for when she is heading to college.
So yes, my doctors are well educated in what goes into the vaccines. I also know him personally, and know that he as well as my other doctors I mentioned do NOT take kickbacks. Thank you very much.
I read that MMWR report before my earlier response. It says this:
“For deaths with underlying respiratory and circulatory causes (including pneumonia and influenza causes) during 1976–2007, the models estimated an annual U.S. average overall of 23,607 (range: 3,349 in 1986–87 to 48,614 in 2003–04) influenza-associated deaths (Table 2). For these underlying causes, the average annual rate of influenza-associated death was 9.0 deaths per 100,000 (range: 1.4–16.7).”
http://www.nursingworld.org/FunctionalMenuCategories/MediaResources/PressReleases/2006/PRWSNA0503068575.aspx
More food for thought. Please, fight this. Don’t let personal rights be trampled in Colorado.
Ken, I am happy to see there are doctors out there who can think for themselves and don’t buy into BIG PHARMA’s lies…
Agreed. Way to do your research Dr Ken!
I completely agree with Christa. What about those of us who do not consume animal products? And as a rule, never consume any products with gelatin. I won’t even take vitamins or medicines containing animal products…and most gel caps are made with gelatin. What about us?
Ok, so I am very confused about all of this. First of all, are we in America? Free choice? What are we fighting for over in the Middle East, if it is not for free choice?
Did I have my children immunized? You bet I did. Have I ever had “influenza” or any other flu that circulated thru each season? Not to my memory. Have I ever had the flu shot? No. Had food poisoning a couple of times, that I got over in 12-16 hours, but never the flu (hope I don’t jinx myself now!)
Are the DOCTORS going to be required to get this shot?
Let’s talk about that. If they are PVH EMPLOYEES, they should. That means all these new docs you have signed on.
If the docs, all ancillary staff, etc, do not have this same mandate, it is wrong. The scenario of someone bringing in your supper tray is so way on!!!! Why are you just nailing the nurses?!!
I have always heard that PVHS is very concerned about their employees, that actually Rulon has said “I want this to be the best job you have ever had”. I feel that with this decision, along with other changes that are taking place within PVHS, that the achievement that has been attained within the last 10-15 years of dedicated, educated employees will be put at serious risk by these actions. I have heard that PVH 10-15 years ago was not a “place of execellence”….and that through hard work, it has become so……please be careful, administration…..as you try to “adjust” your numbers for unforseen futures, you gamble with your present.
I am not trying to make a statement on whether ANY immunization is right/wrong. I am saying we ARE in the USA, and if my boys are fighting overseas to allow freedom,
we should have it here, too.
I spelled “excellence” wrong, and am trying to correct that!
What does this point out? None of us are perfect, just trying to get through….and that’s ok too!
Great observations made above by those opposed to forced medical treatment as to various legal and opinion perspectives.
The hospital administration position assumes medical effectiveness and safety of these toxic vaccinations — they are not in any way proven ‘safe’ and ‘effective’.
The PR suggests “from good to great” and “world class” buzz word-spin in an attempt to sell it and intelligent staff see right through this. Bravo.
First they force vaxed the military and no one spoke up. Then they coerced vaxed the medicos and when they came to force vax me (having already gotten compliance from those administering the vax, those administering it thought ‘I had to, so now you have to’) there was no one to speak up for me.
This incremental approach is thus similar to WWII Nazi. Don’t be a big pharma tool.
Well said David. That is EXACTLY where we are
I second that!!
CAN SOMEONE ANSWER ONE QUESTION FOR ME? WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR RIGHTS AS AMERICAN CITIZENS TO DO AS WE PLEASE WITH OUR OWN BODIES? NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TELL ME I HAVE TO HAVE A SUBSTANCE INJECTED IN MY BODY, THAT CONTAINS ELEMENTS THAT MAY BE HARMFUL TO ME…
PARDON MY SPELLING. ANONYMOUS
Kristin,
Thanks for bringing a different side to things. I appreciate it.
To those that said docs are exempt, many docs are PVHS employees. I am pretty sure they have to do the same things as we do.
I hate that this is such an issue. But, I support this 100%.
I have been notified that employees have been contacting CAN, which is great. Contact them if you would rather not contact me. The ANA does not support disciplinary action against healthcare workers over refusal of vaccinations. CAN is an affiliate of the ANA. I have also been notified that CAN stands with the ANA’s stance, so please, if you are against this mandate which does not respect personal or religious freedom, contact me at hapi.vaxinfo@gmail.com or continue to contact CAN. Either way, keep it up. By requiring clergy to sign a religious exemption, EEOC is being violated, amongst other things. Continue to stand up and speak out. You have others on your side. Reach out to them.
I meant CNA!!!!! Sorry!!! But keep calling them!
99 entries and only 1 response from SMG – they haven’t addressed even one of the concerns expressed by the staff they are employed to support.
Very sad
So let me ask this question:
If the anti-vaccination people (not only against flu, but all other vaccinations children get) are concerned about the amount of mercury in the shot….
Why do they NOT mention the exposure to mercury everyone has through tapwater, seafood, and other sources that are in food ,water, and the environment?
I also did some internet research on “Dawn Winkler”—very interesting–look it up.
Because that isn’t the issue here. The issue is that we are being “required” to inject ourselves with a vaccine that has known thimerosal in it. I think the major issue employees have is that they feel like their rights are being violated.
I understand what the issue is here. I was just merely stating something because of this Dawn Winkler (who is not an employee) was soliciting people to sue their employer.
THAT I have an issue with. I think we finally get the message this Dawn Winkler is trying to get across. But this isn’t the place to continue soliciting people. If they want her services, they can read further up the post.
To all those involved in this decision,
I give up – you win! You have managed to completely destroy my spirit.
As this debate drags on you don’t even have the courtesy to address anyone’s concerns.
Everyone on this discussion board deserves to receive a reply. Instead we are all just being ignored.
What are your thoughts? That if you ignore it, it will just go away?
For an organization that expects respect from it’s employees it seems to me that it is acceptable for SMG to have no respect for it’s staff!
I am ashamed to work for PVHS. I am an emotional wreck, teary and depressed..and all over this issue. This is wrong -why should I be a victim here? Very shortly I will be unemployed and my family will be forced into hardship that we do not deserve.
Even if you chose now to withdraw this mandate (although I know you will probably never even consider it) I no longer want to work for an employer who affords it’s employees no respect.
Make no mistake, you have just made the biggest mistake of your professional career.
Just an observation that I would like to add to my comments about everyone deserving a response to their concerns.
No-one has been given the common courtesy of a reply. Time constraints maybe? Amazing how time can be found for a lengthy, detailed useless blog about college football! Admittedly it was published prior to these discussions but I am sure it was written during the SMG discussions of this mandate.
Plenty of time to write a completely unimportant blog, but no time to address your own staff during a critical issue.
More food for thought….
Most people are contagious before they realize that they are getting sick. Going home or staying home might not prevent exposure. Thanks.
Mercury exposure via water, seafood and the environment aren’t injected for one thing. Your digestive system helps deal with those exposures. There is no safe level of mercury exposure, but the FDA and EPA both have guidelines for INGESTING mercury, non for it being INJECTED. No matter what, exposure to mercury should be limited and 25 mcg in a vaccine is A LOT.
Yes, do some internet research on me. It IS interesting. All I ask is that if you read Peter Bowditch’s exchange with me, read it in its entirety, not the cherry picked pieces he likes to use.
Because I was asked to run for Governor, and did, in ’06 as a Libertarian and because I am successful with my activism regarding vaccination, you definitely will find some interesting stuff out there regarding me. I’m an open book, so, whatever. Please remember you shouldn’t believe everything you read.
Back to the point, because none of that really matters. What matters is that an employer shouldn’t own its employees bodies and be allowed to force medical procedures upon them which carry risk and have very questionable benefit.
I have to wonder…if one were to refuse the vaccination and then became ill with the flu and needed the services here at PVHS, would they be wishing they had the vaccine then, or glad that other professionals got their flu vaccine so they weren’t ill and could take care of them?
I also do not work in a position at PVHS that has direct patient contact. But, I do know that my director and supervisors would appreciate me not getting ill with the flu so I am available to come in and do the job I was hired for. I may not have the direct patient contact, but I feel my job is also critical in patient care and take pride in what I do. Also, I would much rather spend my ELD on something fun with my family, not laying around sick with the flu.
Also, can I just say that it seems Christa is defending her every point on this blog….doesn’t she have a job to do?
I work part-time and, as you may notice, some of my posts have been at night. Some have been during the day from home when I’m not working. A few have been during breaks at work. I’ve mostly responded to those who have specifically mentioned me by name. I actually haven’t posted much lately and don’t intend to much anymore (except of course your post which, again, is addressed specifically to me).
Hi Christa
I’m sorry to hear you’re not intending to post more… I think I know why but would you mind sharing the reason with us?
Steve, Obviously I’ve wound up commenting again (and from home). I just had nothing more to say and I was advised that it would be better if I stopped talking, but not talking when I have something to say isn’t my best attribute
.
Recent events had me thinking about this more, thus my more recent comments. Unless something changes or someone else directs something nice or unpleasant to me again I think that I’m done for now although I will continue to follow the conversation as time allows.
Happy,
Do you know what happens when a person gets guillain barre syndrome (nerve disorder) from a vaccine? PVHS cannot nurse him/her back to health. And he/she cannot sue the vaccine manufacturer. Do you know why? Because Big Pharma made a deal with the government to be exempted from all damage claims. They know there will be many adverse reactions from vaccines, serious ones like long-term paralysis and brain damage, not just swelling at the injection site. Watch the 60 Minutes piece on the 1976 flu vaccine debacle.
Look up Dr. Russell Blaylock, Dr. Sherry Tenpenny, Dr. Mayer Eisenstein. Vaccines are bad medicine. They are toxic. They do not prevent disease. It’s a hoax, well perpetrated by Big Pharma, which has an unethical influence on the medical schools.
Look up “Dr. Tenpenny on Polio Vaccine” to find out how the definitions of epidemic and the disease were altered to hide the truth.
Do a search on “Robert Kennedy Jr. on Vaccines” for a description of the criminal deception and junk science on the part of the vaccine promoters.
Get the ‘manufacturers insert’ of each of the vaccines and see the admissions that they’re not proven effective nor safe for an unborn child, that they contain formaldehyde, mercury, etc.
Research Vit. D and probiotics as safe ways to boost the immune system. The immune system is a far better thing to protect us from disease than some big money-making vaccine.
Check out the consent forms you must sign before getting the vaccine – you’ll see admissions that you cannot sue the makers or administers of the vaccine for adverse effects – of course they try to mislead you by including precautions about egg allergies, but if you are paralyzed by the vaccine, that verbage on the consent form applies.
Professor of Bioengineering at University of IL, Dr. Maniotis, has written a powerful point-by-point analysis of the governments paper on mercury “safety” in vaccines. Therein you can read about the Simpsonwood Document, detailing an illegal meeting between policy makers and vaccine manufacturers, wherein the head of the American Pediatrics Assoc. resigned due to its illegal and criminal publishing of false data.
As for Crista, how ignorant for you to imply she should just shut up and do her job rather than speak up for serious issues. It is the epitomy of ignorance to obey out of blind trust. Christa hasn’t stated why she objects to the vaccines, but rather has stuck to the issue of legality and EEOC principles. But I’m guessing she is well aware of the health risks of the toxic soup that vaccines are.
It is not a matter of refusing good medicine over ethics, it’s a matter of refusing to be forced to take what one believes to be harmful.
An open letter to SMG
Please read the comments from your staff – many of them are obviously in the same position as myself, my partner and the poster ‘Given Up’.
Please do them the courtesy of listening, responding and acting – the three BASIC responsibilities of a manager towards their staff. Please do me the courtesy of reading all of this post before you go to bed tonight..
my partner is a strong person who doesnt give in easily, she is a well educated professional who understands life…
she is coming home from work at night in tears, she is shocked at the way she is being treated, she is scared about what YOU are FORCING her to do, the choices YOU are FORCING her to make…….
do YOU really think YOU have the right to FORCE a person to make the decision between taking a vaccine they dont need or believe in or losing their job?
do YOU really enjoy the dictatorial power you are wielding over your staff – FORCING them to submit to your DEMANDS or be responsible for changing their family’s quality of life….
what gives you the RIGHT to play psychological warfare with my family?
Please consider this when you go home tonight to your beautiful homes and six figure salaries……
my partner cries herself to sleep at night, apologizes to me and our son for what she is being forced to do, is frightened about the prospect of losing our house and lifestyle because of YOUR unethical, immoral and probably illegal decision…..
we’re not going to give up without a fight…. we are both strong and believe in our fundamental human rights, something that both of us have already fought & sacrificed to protect while you were attending your fancy universities…
get ready for a fight because PVHS is going to be dragged thru the local and national media and the courts. There is enough momentum in the corridors of your hospitals to stand up against your unreasonable DEMANDS – and while there is no certainty that we will win in the legal courts your business will be judged by the Court of public opinion
am I angry? YES – because you dont even have the basic common decency to respond to the concerns of YOUR staff -surely you realize that without your staff you DO NOT have a hospital for patients to come to.
and to those who think I’m being dramatic – get over it…. we are both mature professionals who cannot believe that any corporation in the modern, civilized western world can treat its staff this way
sleep well in your comfortable beds tonight SMG – I’m sure your conscience won’t bother you about what you’re doing to your fellow human beings (well, those that dont fall into some arbitary group of protected species that dont need the flu shot)
……. are you still reading? probably not.
Thank you! This is to the point. I work for PVH and I as well go home at night with this on my mind! Who are they to decide for anyone the ingrediants and items to put in OUR bodies? This should be a CHOICE, NOT a mandate. I am outraged at this!!! I am a single mother, who are they to decide if something( god forbid affected me from this)-my son would have NO mother. I am all he has!! Who in their right moral human being rights gives them the choice to play GOD????? I will not get this vaccine! I would rather work anywhere else that does not play with MY life dangling from their puppeteer fingers!!! I am not a puppet to be played with. I have MY RIGHTS!!!!!!!!!!!
I personally would choose NOT to seek care at a hospital which required its employees to undergo a medical procedure which carries risk and is of questionable benefit. And I would certainly not want to do business with any employer that was putting its employees through what “Concerned Spouse” or “Given Up” are going through. Excellent letter above and I anxiously await reading a reply.
Someone should start a Facebook group. Unless there’s organization in some other manner that I’m unaware of right now. But anyway, it sure seems like enough are upset and not being responded to by those in charge. This isn’t right.
Word on the street is that channel 4 is going to cover this….innundate them with your comments, make sure it doesn’t turn out to be one sided like most mainstream media.
http://cbs4denver.com/contact
why does the moderator take so long to post my comment?
If you are an employee against this mandate and are willing to be interviewed, please call Alan Steadman at Channel 7 at 720-413-7727
Dear blog readers,
First, thank you to those who have engaged in a respectful discussion about this very important policy at PVHS. This is one reason I began the blog: to create an alternative forum for employees and the community to learn about the efforts PVHS is taking to deliver world-class health care.
We have listened to the comments and read much of the material which has been posted. Accordingly, while vaccinations will still be mandated, we expect to alter the wording to better address some of the concerns expressed. The new version of the policy will be posted soon.
However, you should know that decision to require employees to get annual flu vaccinations as a condition of employment (unless they file for and are granted an exemption for medical or religious reasons), was not made overnight. We are not the first, nor will we be the last health system to require flu vaccination as a condition of employment.
Additionally, many physician office in the region have made this a requirement of employment for years.
We have clearly heard the frustration of by some in our organization. Going into this we knew that this policy would not be popular with every PVHS employee. We know that some people have been so intent on their personal convictions that they have chosen to leave other organizations which have implemented similar policies.
However, my primary concern rests with our patients who do not have the luxury of a similar choice.
Remember that in order to even make this decision PVHS looked to industry and expert groups for best practices in patient care, and we feel this is just such a best practice. The American Academy of Pediatrics, Society for Healthcare Epidemiology of America, Infectious Disease Society of America and National Patient Safety Foundation have all called for mandatory vaccination of healthcare workers, and the American Medical Association and the American Nurses Association encourage physicians and nurses to get the vaccine.
And though the ANA does not support mandatory vaccination, the group nonetheless acknowledges that vaccination is “the primary and most effective method of symptom reduction and prevention of influenza” and supports steps to “address misconceptions about influenza vaccine.”
We believe this new policy is in the best interest of our patients, and that’s why we exist: to provide world-class health care.
Thank you so much for the continued input.
Rulon
I’m sorry, your response does nothing to answer any of the questions we’ve raised
where are the metrics – how many patients have been infected by staff?
why are you selectively mandating the flue shot – why are groups exempt? (not just on religious or medical reasons)
this is not about personal conviction – it’s about basic human rights and to suggest that employees have the “luxury” of choosing between employement and the flu shot is once again reflective of SMG’s lack of respect and compassion for their employees – however, patients do have the ‘luxury’ of choosing which hospital to go to.
Sorry Mr Stacey, all you’ve done here is tried to justify a poor decision.
Steve, I have to take issue with two of your points.
First, can you find another organization that respects its employees so much that it would allow this kind of open exchange in the public? This is obviously a highly charged issue, yet PVHS has allowed external voices (Dawn Winkler, etc) a voice and platform even when those opinions are decidedly contrary to the goal of the policy. Also, according to Rulon’s post, the language of the policy is actually being changed to incorporate some of the feedback. This is a clear example of respecting employees.
Second, your point that patients “have the luxury of choosing which hospital to go to” is exactly the point that people supporting this policy would make. If I had to choose between two hospitals for my family, I would choose the one that makes hard choices to reduce the risk of increased illness or death to my family member over the one that put individual autonomy of its employees first.
Fair points Mike
Yes, I have worked for companies that allow open communication – interesting to note the volume and frequency of management responses to the ‘good news’ posts on this blog, yet virtually no responses to the questions raised by staff.
As far as your choice of hospital, I agree with you in one respect, but then you are condoning their practices in another
Thank you Rulon. I agree. Thank you also to PVHS for putting the patient first. I’m an employee her, and I am also sometimes a patient.
http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/meetings/upcomingmeetings/09142010agenda.html
On Tues. I listened in via phone to a presentation at the NVAC (National Vaccine Advisory Committee) meeting in Washington, DC by Dr. Hillary Babcok. She is with IDSA and SHEA, two groups who support mandatory vaccination of health care workers.
I can’t tell you how disgusted I was at the total disregard and lack of respect for health care workers, and nurses in particular, she expressed. At one point she was talking about other flu prevention methods, such as hand washing and masking. She said something like, those policies were hard to enforce and that the hospital “couldn’t trust” everyone to wash their hands or wear their mask all the time. I couldn’t help but think….these nurses are trusted with people’s lives, but you can’t trust them to wash their hands or wear a mask? That really upset me.
The other thing that stuck with me was one of the statistics she threw out. One of the first test hospitals for mandatory vaccination was Virginia Mason, their vaccination rate was 98%. However, The Healthcare Corp. of America also implemented a mandatory vaccination policy that allowed personal, medical and religious exemptions. Their vaccination rate was 96%. I wondered…is this really worth 2%?
Colorado has a long history of supporting and upholding personal exemption rights for school vaccine requirements. Every time a vaccine issue comes up at the legislature there’s always a difference of opinion. But the one thing everyone always agrees on is that Colorado should continue to allow exemptions, not just for medical and religious reasons, but for personal reasons as well.
Shouldn’t health care workers have that right too? I certainly think they should.
For those of you who would argue mandatory flu shots are the best and most effective way to stop the spread of flu, I want to see the data and studies from the other side.
http://www.facebook.com/?tid=1572406746292&sk=messages#!/group.php?gid=153929824632399
I’ve started a facebook page for people to get additional information, including the full text of the ruling from the US Court of Appeals, 9th circuit on the case WA nurses won on this issue. Check it out.
I so look forward to the modified policy. Truly hoping that it is a respectful and fair policy which does not discriminate against anyone.
As for misconceptions about flu vaccine, anyone really seeking the truth should read these:
http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/URItheFlu/10731
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20099441
There’s much, much more, but if you are open minded at all, you should read these.
well, here we go…i’m throwing my hat in the ring. watch channel 9 and channel 4 tonight as i gave interviews to both news reporters. it’s time for this to go to the court of pubic opinion. it is not for nor against the efficacy of the flu shot. it’s about the unfair application of the policy as well as the possibly illegal religious waver stance. someone had to do it… BTW, no i will not get the shot. if you missed the interviews look on their websites…
You spoke well. I do see that the policy has been modified to allow for a personal statement of religious belief in lieu of a cleric’s statement.
I must admit that I found it a bit disingenuous of PVHS to have stated in their part of the interview that employees saying a cleric’s signature was required were wrong and that people could “sign for themselves.” That was not the case up until maybe a few hours ago. It certainly wasn’t the case at the point the interviews were given. At least employees hadn’t been told of that modification if it had already been made.
That statement wound up making it look like the employees were either lying or exaggerating. It would have been more honest to have said something like, “we listened to those concerns (or we were worried about being sued) and we have modified the policy to allow them to sign for themselves.”
The exemption form on VIC does still state that they will review and approve or disapprove these requests including personal statements of faith. I still don’t see anything in the Civil Rights laws pertaining to discrimination and religion wherein it says your employer can test the sincerity of your religious beliefs and ascertain if they agree that you really believe what you say you do.
I was not, and am not, soliciting anyone to sue their employer. I was contacted by employees and simply want to help ensure that employees seek out and know what their rights are when it comes to this issue and I do encourage them to take legal action if they are discriminated against. I am not offering any services as I have none to offer. I am simply an individual who believes it is wrong for an employer to force a medical procedure which carries risk on an employee. I don’t believe that employers should own employees, their bodies, or their medical choices. Frankly, I wish someone other than myself would stand up and help organize those against this so I can step away. If that has occurred, by all means, let me know where to send the people who have contacted me.
Google “Dawn “Winkler” just for fun. You get some good stuff, including this one you won’t want to miss.
http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/hapi.htm
http://cbslocalblogs.prospero.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?webtag=KCNC_Hnida
Channel 4 blog, FYI, I hope people will comment there as much as they have here.
To RN on TV,
I cannot believe that I was reading your post and switched to Channel 4 at the EXACT same time that the news item was airing.
A little disappointed in the briefity, but pleased to see the exposure.
Good on you for standing up! Like you said, it’s not about whether you choose the vaccine or not, it’s about respecting individual decisions. We live in the 21st century where the rights of individuals should be respected.
Sorry that the Channel 4 report did not highlight this issue in the manner in which you intended.
As someone who faces having my employment terminated as I will not submit to having the flu shot, I thank you for standing up.
I don’t think this changes anything. “Sincerley-held religious beliefs and is not merely a personal prefrence”, What the heck does that mean?
1. I hereby certify that the influenza vaccination is contrary to my sincerely-held religious beliefs and/or practices.
2. Attached is documentation confirming that this exemption is consistent with my religious beliefs/practices. (Documentation may include a letter from clergy, a personal statement of your moral/ethical belief system, or other evidence that this request is based on sincerely-held religious beliefs and is not merely a personal preference.)
I’ve already addressed this. Yes, “ratbags”!!! Peter Bowditch. A peach. Read the entire conversation if possible, not cherry picked stuff. And I DO stand by every word I said.
Again, not soliciting people to sue their employer. But given that someone just said they face potential termination of employment over this issue, I want to clearly state that if what I read with regard to the current religious exemption is the way it is going to be, it really does leave things wide open with respect to religious discrimination, EEOC, etc. I repeat, not soliciting ANYTHING, other than employees know their rights and if discrimination occurs, I hope that appropriate legal action will be taken. That’s my version of saying “BZZZZ, thanks for playing, WRONG, try again”. To save time, yes, this is Dawn, and yes, go Google my name. Lots of fun.
Rulon,
Could you please explain in more detail just what is meant in the description of exemption due to religious beliefs.
I’m not sure I understand what it means. How can this be presented for “approval”? How can anyone decide if the applicants beliefs are real or not.
I’m sorry – I don’t get it. Could you please elaborate a little more?
Thanks.
Cindy,
If you read the Washington decision, they ruled Virginia Mason had to work the flu vaccine requirement into the nurses bargaining agreement because they were unionized. The rest of the staff at Virginia Mason is still required to get the shot.
Christa,
I wouldn’t say it was disingenuous. Rulon was on here yesterday morning saying “while vaccinations will still be mandated, we expect to alter the wording to better address some of the concerns expressed. The new version of the policy will be posted soon.”
So when the media showed up because of the nurse going to the TV stations (employees do have the right to talk to the media), they probably had to tell them what the policy was going to be. And it was posted on VIC yesterday afternoon sometime.
Bravo Steve; “this is about PVHS ignoring the basic moral, legal and human rights of an individual to make a decision about their own medical treatment.” I have chosen to vaccinate in the past, but I am totally AGAINST the mandate for the above reason, and was against it the moment it was first posted on VIC! I will fight for the freedom to choose.
still believe vaccinations are benign? don’t cause autism? in the news yesterday… http://cbs4denver.com/health/autism.vaccines.hannah.2.1911130.html
the new waiver in no way, shape or form helps me out…
this issue is making me very tired. i really didn’t want to get into the pro-con issue on vaccines…just to stick with the policy flaws.
stick a fork in me…i’m done.
No one’s asking you to get 9 shots in one visit:
“Then, in July 2000, she was vaccinated against nine diseases in one doctor’s visit: measles, mumps, rubella, polio, varicella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus, and Haemophilus influenzae.”
Can someone clarify the mask policy for me? Are PVHS employees allowed to wear a mask in lieu of getting a flu vaccine? Can someone cut and paste that section of the policy here? If PVHS employees can’t wear a mask in leu of getting the shot, someone mislead the media or 4 and 9 are just inept at getting this story right.
Please let the media know they got it wrong when they act like this is no big deal and not the first mandate. Both 9 and 4 left out the glaring difference that the prior mandates at other hospitals ALLOWED FOR THE OPTION OF WEARING A MASK. Unless I see that change made to policy IC-41 soon, this mandate at PVHS is in no way, shape, or form the same as past mandates. The media gets it wrong again. Big surprise. And RN on TV is right, the new waiver isn’t any better because it doesn’t address the issue of WHO will decide what is not “merely personal preference” or
HOW they will decide what is not “merely personal preference”.
One vaccine can harm you just as easily as 9. My grandfather had a stroke immediately after getting ONE flu vaccine. Really don’t want to get into the whole debate about safety, I know I won’t convince anyone whose already dead set for vaccines. This is about freedom, choice, your employer not owning your body, the ability to make health decisions for yourself. But to understand the passion behind how and why we value freedom, concerns over safety and efficacy do have to be addressed at some point.
Homework,
I suggest you do some homework on the flu vaccine itself. Didn’t you hear about the tainted batch of h1n1 vaccine that killed test animals in Europe last year and the ensuing legal suit?
And it was ONE flu shot that gave Desiree Jennings the horrifying “Distonia” last year.
Desiree Jennings? You mean the woman who supposedly also developed a British accent from the flu shot?
There’s no logic in this debate. Someone points to multiple, industry-standard organizations referencing credible study after credible study showing safety, benefit, etc, and the comeback is someone is accused by some of faking a rare condition that apparently won’t let her walk forward (she could only walk sideways and backwards). Then a TV show films her walking correctly until the reporter approaches her.
Thank you, Homework, for informing me of the latest on Desiree. I was not aware of the more recent video where the reporter approached her in a parking lot. I just watched it and was really shocked.
However, I don’t think she was faking the earlier condition and it’s pretty obvious to me she still has something wrong with her brain – her present condition is as baffling as the original condition. I can’t explain the cause and effect process of these strange behaviors, but that doesn’t mean they’re fake. It’s just as plausible that her brain was damaged by the toxins in the vaccine, as the assumption she is putting on an elaborate hoax. Given the strangeness of the symptoms of Autism, I’d believe the brain-damage explanation before the hoax explanation. Even if Desiree’s behavior is psychosomatic, it still started with the vaccine. She was perfectly healthy before the vaccine. This is what many parents say about their autistic children. The connection is undeniable.
Consider these facts: Austism has increased drastically since the vaccine schedule for children was increased. Mercury, Formaldehyde, Aluminum and other vaccine ingredients are known toxins and cause neuro-disfunction.
Talking about hoaxes, check out the Simpsonwood Meeting transcript:
http://www.autismhelpforyou.com/Simpsonwood_And_Puerto%20%20Rico.htm
that is why i wish to stick with policy flaws… paul paduska said on 9 news that employees can sign their own waivers…misleading. management will still sit in judgment about what is legitimate and what is not re: religion. i gotta give a dissertation?
Well done, my friend. You did what most of us wish we could do. I only wish the news stations had covered your whole interview and not slanted the interview. I agree with Christa, it came across as though the concerned employees are over-reacting and being untruthful about the policy. I appreciate the effort to “change” the policy by SMG at a most convienent time but the problem remains the same: if you don’t have a “medical” or “religious” exemption, you don’t have an option for refusal. Even if you have a valid exemtion, it is still up to someone else to determine if it’s legit. My personal reasons for refusing the flu shot do not need to be validated by anyone else.
I am really sad right now. This whole thing is just making me sick to my tummy. I lost a sister to vaccines. She was only 2 years old when she got her vaccines and for the next 23 years of her life she spent dealing with the damage it caused. I watched as she went through hell. All four of us kids grew up in hospitals and watched as my sister had to take this medication and had to go to UCHSC because no one around this area could help her when she was such a young case of kidney failure. I have seen what vaccines have done and can do to people, and yet… I still get vaccinated.
Here is my problem. I make that choice. I own any side effects might come from them because it is a CHOICE I have made. For my employer to tell me I have to get the vaccine is wrong. They CAN NOT make that choice for me, and for me to accept the possible side effects that I might have to live with for the rest of my life or for my unborn son’s life.
Here are my questions to SMG:
1) Can you in legal documentation guarantee that the vaccine is 100% safe to recieve? That I will not and my unborn son will not suffer any possible side effects from this vaccine? Can you gaurantee that to every employee in the health system?
2) If some unfortunate event should happen, are you willing to pay for all the medical expenses the employee might have to endure for the rest of their lives?
3) Will you offer 100% mercury-free vaccines to those who are very concerned with this issue?
4) Will you provide ALL information on this vaccine and what the side effects are? This is provided for all medications and as a individual who can control their own health care we can make informed decissions on whether the pros of the medication out weigh the cons.
I want the choice to accept the possible side effects of any kind of medication or vaccine. If I take a med I am owning the possible outcomes at my choice. Not someone elses.
SO, Where is my gaurantee??? As stated in Amber’s reply, where is my letter with the gaurantee myself or my family will NOT be affected with any side affects or outcomes later in life??? I want the choice!!!!! If I chose to get this then it is my choice and I would choose any possible outcomes FOR MYSELF!!!!!!!!!! I knew Amber’s sister very well. I worked with her and she was a dear friend!! For those who knew her, they were lucky. She was a beautiful person all around. I have never met anyone with as big of a heart as her!!! She is now gone thanks to vaccines and unfortunately that is something we all have come to deal with. This administration would have been lucky to have her working here or to even had had the chance of meeting her!!! If she would have known how this may have affected her she most likely would have not gotten the vaccines. However, she was a child and did not have the choice. Now, administration is choosing for us. We are informed adults and should have the choice to way out the pros and cons of anything that would affect our family’s, friends, and ourselves!!!!!!!!!!!!! Something needs to give here!!
Amber & D and SMG,
Your posts moved me to tears Amber & D. I am so sorry for your loss. I hope the right people read these also. Such a poignant story.
SMG: Please, please reconsider this mandate, please allow us to choose for ourselves. We are all here for our patients but please don’t make this a price to pay to retain our jobs. Please respect our own individual thoughts, beliefs and life experiences in making a decision about our own health care.
Could we ask members of the SMG to hold an Open Forum to discuss all the issues that have been raised? This blog is not the right medium. Too much is misconstrude and I know that many employees would like the opportunity to pose questions and receive a direct answer.
Please consider this.
Thank you
Delta Waters, R.N. Thank you
bridget, you are welcome…
This is appalling and also why I choose to no longer work in the hospital setting. I watched the flu vaccine take my mother’s otherwise excellent health later leaving me to take her off life support. She kept going back for another each year because she always contracted the flu within a week or two afterward, and the doctor told her it would have been worse without the shot. She eventually realized that she didn’t get the flu prior to the shot. Now she was suffering from pneumonia and strokes afterward. I have watched as my great aunt on one side of my family and uncle on the other died after a sudden onset of pneumonia after the vaccine. My friend’s colleague lost his life years ago within minutes of the shot administered at his work. Countless friends have fallen ill following that shot and refuse to ever take it again. Every year it is administered at our church and every year someone collapses either in the parking lot or at home or even exactly one week later at church, but no answers are given and no reports made.
Once more I don’t take the flu shot and have not had the flu in 13 years. Interestingly the only flu I had followed a tetanus booster which doctors had to later admit blunted my immune system.
This is in direct violation of every human’s basic right to have sovereignty over his/her body. Only the individual truly knows how he or she feels and should be allowed to act accordingly. So sad to see a health care facility claim this to be for the patient’s good when so many of us have watched the spread of flu through the use of the vaccine only to be told that it “just doesn’t happen”, and yet no solid independent study is ever performed to prove otherwise.
Good luck PVHS staff. I hope you video tape all events before, during, and after your vaccination. You owe that to yourselves and your patients.
Thank you, Virginia, for sharing this personal data. As an ordinary person, with no M.D. or PhD after my name, I have always put more trust in actual first-hand accounts from other ordinary people than in claims made by the pharmaceutical companies. A person’s common sense should alert him/her to the contradictory, even ridiculous, statements on the consent forms, pro-vaccine news segments, and above all, the pharmaceutical commercials.
My mother gets a flu shot every year and her reason is, simply, she does what her doctor tells her to do. She suffers terribly from arthritis and when I told her about the flu vaccine’s effect on the immune system, how it causes a hyper-immune reaction manifest in inflamation, she cut me off and said her arthritis is hereditary (I don’t recall my grandparents having any arthritis).
One of my sisters-in-law developed Rheumatoid Arthristis in her early 40′s and suffers agonizing pain and swelling every day. Her meds have horrible side-effects, including the enlargement of her liver and she’s had to have several emergency surgeries. This all started out of nowhere after a couple of years at a job where she got the flu shot for free annually.
Another sister-in-law was on several anti-depression and symptom-relief meds and had the mentality that doctors would fix all her problems with drugs. She suddenly developed mysterious symptoms (ringing in the ears, hair rapidly graying and falling out, tremendous bloating, speech problems) and finally was diagnosed with Lupus. She went on more meds and deteriorated to the point of using a wheel chair in her 40′s, to becoming bed-bound for about a year, to sudden death in her sleep, at age 52.
I work at a large law firm in Chicago and every year they offer the flu shot. Most of our attorneys and staff choose not to get it. Last year, during the so-called pandemic declared by the WHO, I did not hear of one person getting the flu at my firm. Everyone I know personally here did not get the shot, nor the flu. However, at least three people here said that over the years, the one time they got the shot, that was the only time they got the flu.
If you work for PVHS and are against this mandate, call Bobby McGill at 970-224-7757, he’s at The Coloradoan.
He is under the impression that it is only “a couple” of employees that are unhappy with this.
Let him know that the Channel 4 and 9 coverage left much to be desired and why.
The EEOC will support “religious” views to include “Creed.” This is a very broad term. Here is how it reads on the EEOC website:
(quote)
Title VII protects all aspects of religious observance and practice as well as belief and defines religion very broadly for purposes of determining what the law covers. For purposes of Title VII, religion includes not only traditional, organized religions such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism, but also religious beliefs that are new, uncommon, not part of a formal church or sect, only subscribed to by a small number of people, or that seem illogical or unreasonable to others. An employee’s belief or practice can be “religious” under Title VII even if the employee is affiliated with a religious group that does not espouse or recognize that individual’s belief or practice, or if few – or no – other people adhere to it. Title VII’s protections also extend to those who are discriminated against or need accommodation BECAUSE THEY PROFESS NO RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. (emphasis mine.)
Religious beliefs include theistic beliefs (i.e. those that include a belief in God) as well as non-theistic “moral or ethical beliefs as to what is right and wrong which are sincerely held with the strength of traditional religious views.” Although courts generally resolve doubts about particular beliefs in favor of finding that they are religious, beliefs are not protected merely because they are strongly held. Rather, religion typically concerns “ultimate ideas” about “life, purpose, and death.” (end quote)
The fact remains: who at PVHS will determine if our beliefs are religious or merely “personal?” This policy remains flawed.
It’s worth mentioning again that the American Nurse’s Association and, thus, the Colorado Nurse’s Association both state that while they support the vaccination that they are strictly against termination of nurses due to their refusal of the said vaccine. They have this issue on their current radar.
http://www.nvic.org/getdoc/53c221e4-536e-4f76-9e76-a0a2e4586297/Why-Influenza-Vaccine-Mandates-Are-Ineffective—U.aspx
Link to:
Influenza Vaccine:
Why Mandates Are Ineffective & Unwise Public Policy
Provided by National Vaccine Information Center
Link to information on filing civil rights complaints for discrimination of religion or creed in Colorado:
http://www.dora.state.co.us/civil-rights/complaint_process_intake_packets/complaint_process.htm
http://haicontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/09/more-on-sheas-flu-vaccine-mandate-for.html
This is a great blog that includes links to 3 Cochrane reviews of vaccination studies and the conclusion – So given the lack of rigorous evidence supporting the utility of vaccinating HCWs to prevent transmission to patients, I find it astonishing that the Society of Hospital Epidemiologists would adopt such a position.
Cindy,
Thank you for your research. May I suggest you email these links directly to Mr Stacey’s inbox and ask if he could kindly comment in his defence.
And thank you for the DORA link – I have downloaded my complaint packet and will be submitting it shortly. I hope all those opposed to this mandate will be do the same.
Given Up,
Can you contact me off this blog – my e-mail is mrssnappy@aol.com
While I believe it is important to stick to the issue of an employer requiring a medical procedure which carries risk being flat out wrong, I do think it is important for those with the attitude of “why would anyone be opposed, other than for religious reasons?” to read, ponder, and try to comprehend issues like the one described below:
Side effects worse than the disease
September 18, 2010, Sydney Morning Herald (One of Australia’s leading newspapers)
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/wellbeing/side-effects-worse-than-the-disease-20100917-15gbm.html
Public health experts have called for an independent body to monitor drug safety after it emerged that young children were more likely to end up in hospital because of side effects from a flu vaccine than they were from the disease itself. More than 1000 adverse responses in children under five were reported … by June this year, including nearly 100 instances of febrile convulsions, a seizure which in a small number of cases has been associated with long-term adverse health outcomes. The side effects were linked to one of the three seasonal flu vaccines, Fluvax and Fluvax junior, from the drug company CSL, but the [Therapeutic Goods Administration] maintained despite that, that “the overall risk-benefit balance of both products remains positive”. Research published yesterday in the journal Eurosurveillance showed Fluvax might have caused two to three hospital admissions due to seizure for every admission from flu it prevented. The chief executive of the Public Health Association of Australia, Michael Moore, said further examination of risks was needed, at arm’s length from the TGA. The government should consider creating an independent centre. “There is a concern … that the TGA is the body that approves vaccines and is also the body that determines what the risks and benefits are when concerns are raised,” he said.
Dear Colleagues,
I’m embarrassed and ashamed for our profession. I’m all about speaking up, but it must be in an informed way. Recitations of “Grandma’s ordeal with the flu shot in 1982″ just are not credible. Cite current literature (not funded by “big pharma”) and speak in an evidence (data) based way or please do not speak. To cite urban legend, old wive’s tales and such is damaging to our profession. Please.
RN of many years
Not so entitled,
I think it’s difficult to find good data on this subject. This analysis in the BJM explains some of the reasons why. Influenza vaccination: policy versus evidence :
http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7574/912.full
Organizations pushing mandatory flu vaccine pick and choose the data they use to suppport their recommendations. It’s up to the people, like Rulon, who implement these policies to do their homework on the data and not just follow along blindly.
An important US Supreme Court (09-152) case being heard on Oct. 12, 2010. The 1986 National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (NVICP) took away our right to trial by jury without first going through the “vaccine court” process. If you or your child is vaccine injured, you cannot directly sue the manufacturer or the vaccine provider. You must apply to the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and participate in what most perceive as a Kangaroo court with government appointees, who are not even justices. They, of course, generally recoil at the thought of blaming vaccines for causing harm.
Because of the 1986 law, you MUST enter the “vaccine court” process. Only if your case is dismissed, not heard in a timely manner; or your case is heard and you object to the outcome, then and only then, the NVICP “permits” you to file a civil suit for a trial by jury. The NVICP law also defines how the trial by jury shall be conducted (in Sec. 300aa-23).
The 1986 NVICP law says that, when you fit into the preceding criteria, only then can you have a trial by jury. (Of course this is already and egregious imposition of our rights…but it is a done deal.) However, in the case being heard next week, on Oct. 12, 2010, the vaccine manufacturers are trying to set up additional barriers that take away your right to a trial by jury. They want to persuade the Supreme Court that they should rule that Judges (State or Federal) have the right to decide beforehand, that is, before you enter the trial by jury, whether you even qualify for a trial by jury.
Section 300aa-23, of the 1986 NVICP law, states that the first consideration within the parameters of the trial by jury must be the liability question. That is, does an approval by the FDA of the vaccine that has injured your child or person, obviate the manufacturer from liability?
The manufacturers, in this case, want the Supreme Court to decide that if the vaccine was approved by the FDA, the manufacturer has no liability, and, therefore, you cannot have the trial by jury that the NVICP guarantees you should have.
However, the 1986 NVICP law clearly states that the liability question must be decided within the first phase of the trial by jury, not beforehand.
This case, Russell Bruesewitz, et al., Petitioners v. Wyeth, Inc., fka Wyeth Laboratories, et al. (09-152) is an attempt by the vaccine makers to have the Supreme Court rule that the judiciary has a right to violate your right (again) to a trial by jury by making a decision about the issue of the vaccine maker’s liability (defined in Sec. 300aa-22) prior to and outside of the civil trial (trial by jury) provided for by Sec. 300aa-23.
DO YOU STILL TRUST THE VACCINES?
Interesting…isn’t it all this information. Rulon you should be proud that your employees are so health motivated that they are seeking out ALLn the information necessary to make an informed intelligent CHOICE whether or not to receive the flu vaccine.
It seems that everyone i talk to is against this mandate, even those that choose to receive the vaccination, but they are afraid to lose their jobs.
Rulon are you so far removed from PVH staff that you stopped listening to their concerns and their civil rights, are you big enough to step back and REALLY listen to what the staff are saying….this is not some small thing..it is huge,,there are side effects and risk involved…we are not blind sheep following a flawed leader.
I am very impressed with the caliber of discussion on this blog; it is indeed an intelligent, informed and sincere discussion – at least on the side of the employees. And also respectful.
I’m glad someone brought up the Cochrane reviews on flu vaccines, I was thinking about that. It would be nice if SMG actually listed the body of literature they used to come to this decision, not just “because the American Academy of Pediatrics and other organizations recommend it…” making it sound politically motivated. I would like more evidence that making such draconian policies actually work for patient safety. Although, even if they did work (which I doubt), they still violate the basic fundamental biomedical ethical issues of sound medical practices – patient autonomy of choice.
Like Christa, I too had all the other childhood shots due to my parent’s choice. Now as an adult I have different philosophies and different choices for my life and own body.
I agree with the other person asking for actual data analyses such as how many patients get infected from healthcare workers? They do not address the fact that nurse Joe could have gotten their flu vaccine then picked up the flu virus on their hands from their preschooler at home then went in to take care of their patient and passed it on that way, despite being vaccinated. Vaccinated people can still be *carriers*. Not to mention all the visitors that come in. Also, I read that 80% of flues are not caused by Influenza A/B strains but rather by “influenza-like illnesses”, which are not covered in flu shots.
They also do not address the concern about virus shedding from those who have been vaccinated (such as with the flu mist vaccine) – which may also still harm patients. And will they be requiring all family and visitors to also get vaccinated? Although the absolute *primary* argument is that of freedom of choice, I don’t think it’s entirely inappropriate to have the complete discussion that includes the “does it work” points as well, even though we’ll never come to agreement on that because it is controversial, and there is also a lot of politics and corruption in science and in the studies that are out there so there will always be debate and it will always be difficult to know anything “for sure” – all the more reason against mandating any medical treatment. Science is constantly evolving.
It is not correct to insist that we only focus on the “patient” as the moment you force a medical treatment on a healthcare worker, that healthcare worker **becomes** the patient. So who really are the “patients” in society? Are “paying customers” the only permissible patients defined in our society now? Do you have to be a “paying customer” to earn basic patient rights now? That seems like the wrong message to send the community as an employer. What kind of society do we want to have (communist China-ish?)?
Patient autonomy has been one of the basic fundamentals in biomedical ethics. Again, who is the “patient”? The moment you start talking about forcing a medical treatment on a healthcare worker, they become the patient. We care so much about our patients – don’t forget that a medical treatment forced on us makes us patients, too, with the same rights, privelages and responsibilities as any other patient we so deeply and compassionately care for. (Except that given the laws about vaccine manufacturers being exempt from litigation, we would have little recourse should something actually happen to us after such forced medical treatment, placing employees in an extremely vulnerable position). Yet healthcare workers are guilt-tripped into “doing it for your patients”, when such little if any actual evidence exists that that’s really the case.
Many of us would do anything for our patients, that’s why we’re in healthcare. That is likely why they are using this argument against us – inappropriately. But to be subjected to a medical treatment ourselves forces *us* into the position of patient and we must make our own risk/benefit analysis as with any medical treatment. Is it right to rob the rights of one group of “patients” for the protection of another group of “patients”? When looking at community health have we lost site of the individual – indeed the basic principles of medical ethics were founded on the individual and their relationship with their own physician. Why must members of a community give up their rights to their own bodies for “the greater good”? It makes no sense that in order to get to practice in healthcare you must be willing to give up the rights to your own body. So when SMG keeps saying they’re doing this “for the patients…” ….. they’re really talking about their “paying customers”, right? Because healthcare workers are people, too, and they are also “the patient” in this case.
My sister works in a hospital in Phoenix, AZ where they are now in their 2nd year of mandating the flu shots. Last year she spent thousands of dollars of her own money getting allergy testing and discovered she had a severe hypersensitivity to egg proteins – a contraindication for flu shots. She also has autoimmune disease and does not want to further mess with her immune system by getting any more vaccines. The people who don’t get flu shots must wear a mask throughout the entire flu season – which she does. The people who don’t have a “legitimate” excuse must undergo company sponsored education sessions regarding flu shots and if they still object then they’re terminated. Last year they only had the Flu-Mist vaccines at first and that’s all the employees got, which can cause virus shedding and actually infect the people around them with the virus.
This is the wrong direction for the practice of medicine to go in any freedom upholding country with sound scientific and biomedical ethical convictions in medicine and public health, and it is absolutely the wrong direction for business and employment practices in America to go. One more thing – if we really want to fight for patient health – let’s look at what we feed our patients in hospitals! Highly processed foods! Lots of junk foods, too! Healthier hospital foods can help promote healing and immune systems so they can fight ALL pathogens, not just flu. If I had to be hospitalized – take me to the hospital with wholesome organic foods that are nutrient dense and prepared well, perhaps with shots of wheat grass juice and freshly made veggy/fruit juices, etc., nevermind what employees choose to do or not do to their own bodies. Just practice universal precautions which are known to work.
However, I must say I am impressed with the ability to have this blog and grateful for the ability to engage in this discussion openly. Best wishes and love to all.
Very well presented, you have expressed what most of us are feeling at this time. Thank-you for taking the time to write this!!!
I also want to ask those who have posted comments without their names…why? Do you not think that the SMG doesn’t know who you are?
I appreciate all the comments and concerns but seriously would like to know who you are .
We all need to be visable and strong together…to present a united front, that is the only way we can win this…
Respectfully, Cyndee
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/11/14/Expert-Pediatrician-Exposes-Vaccine-Myths.aspx?aid=CD945
Rulon,
Check this out. There are physicians out there who unnderstand the science proving safety and efficacy of the flu vaccine just isn’t there.
If you only get your information from the CDC and groups pushing madatory flu vaccine, you will not understand this.
From Dr. Larry Palevsky in part:
But more and more, I kept seeing that my experience of the world, my experience in using and reading about vaccines, and hearing what parents were saying about vaccines were very different from what I was taught in medical school and my residency training.
… and it became clearer to me as I read the research, listened to more and more parents, and found other practitioners who also shared the same concern that vaccines had not been completely proven safe or even completely effective, based on the literature that we have today.
For many health professionals it is a shock to discover that there is such a lack of information on the safety and efficacy, and a mounting degree of information that actually raises suspicions about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines, and whether or not they have been properly studied.”
Cindy
AMEN!!!!!
My daughter who is a major in the Air Force is absolutely appalled by MANDATORY flu vaccines in the work force, although she is required to receive it…she has chosen to accept it because she firmly believes in the FREEDOM of all Americans to CHOOSE. She has been in desert storm and Iraq…to fight for our freedom from oppression…our constituional right to make our own choices…
I am sure that all of our Armed Forces would be appalled at this out rageous infringement on our American freedoms…….
Rulon,
So predicatable that you should make a big deal of you having your flu shot.
So, what about all those employees that will be subjecting themselves to this invasive procedure for no other reason but to retain their jobs?
Those people are the heroes – not you.
This video you posted of yourself is offensive.
Anyone who takes a shot to retain their job is not a hero, but a sheep. The real heroes are those who take a stand for what they believe in and who fight the medical lies and propaganda. Please look up:
“Graphic Reality: The Charting of Truth” (1 hr) at:
https://www2.gotomeeting.com/en_US/island/webinar/registrationPost.tmpl?Action=rgoto&_sf=2
There are many doctors who are telling the truth about vaccines, unlike the medical establishment that has been spewing fake science and working against the body instead of with it.
Very interesting website:
http://www.naturalnews.com/029641_vaccines_junk_science.html
Kathy, I truly understand why some of the employees took the shot…they need their jobs, and THAT is exactly what Rulon was counting on. It doesn’t mean that they wanted to or believed it..they have families to support and times are rough out there in the job market.
That being said, here is what Rulon and the rest of the administration doesn’t get, their employees are angry and do not support the SMG.(senior mangaement group)
My co-workers and the employees at PVH are what make this place a great place to work;however when it comes time for Magnet and Baldridge these same people are not going to support those awards. That is what Rulon is NOT hearing and trust me it is more than a handful. It is enough to ruin all the awards that PVH has so arrogantly flaunted to the point that nothing else matters and the employees are disposable.
It is a different place now employees vs Senior Management..how sad…the joint effort WAS what made us so wonderful. PVH has chosen not to care or listen to their employees.
Cyndee,
You’re right. I’m sorry I was curt in my statement. I truly feel for the people who faced such a hard decision and were virtually forced to take bad medicine. I feel the same way about soldiers. Of all professions, they are the most controlled.
I’m in the legal field and in close association with scientists and doctors who see a picture that a lot of people don’t, and that is a corrupt marriage between government agencies and Big Pharma. I long to see more people stand up to this criminal cabal and re-establish true health freedom in this country.
Thank you for sharing this insight about PVH employees witholding of support for the awards. I applaud them for this meaningful action.
Kathy in Chicago
I for one have no interest in seeing PVH continue to “win” awards. I will not support them in their efforts and will voice my opinion to anyone who approaches me to ask me questions regarding any of these awards.
Cyndee, I hope you are right and that there will be many employees who do the same. I cannot justify supporting an employer that is both arrogant and does not support me.
Swine flu vaccine linked to 900 percent increased risk of developing narcolepsy
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/031313_swine_flu_vaccine_narcolepsy.html#ixzz1Dt3FEh9P
Bravo to those who are standing up for our (american’s) rights. – your rights. I am a guest reading these comments, a health care provider for over 20 years, a teaching provider, CDC “certified” vaccine provider, mother, wife, daughter, PVH patient since 1996 to current (last there 9/1/2011) and the list goes on . . . This is insane that our “BEST PRACTICE” hospitals are even considering these measures for the flu vaccine. What is next? ACLU says to hire a lawyer – what? Class action suit? Our they going to REQUIRE “other” health changes to your body next? What about all of our goverment offices that require us to come in person to get license, tax payments, etc. Are they too going to be required to get the FLU (H1N1 hidden inside for most of the general public is totally unaware) vaccine? They are exposing me and all our patients to the flu potentials. GIVE Us A Break!!! Do you people who come up with these mandates have nothing better to do with your time than to check boxes so you look good to someone in power that you are REQUIRING this vaccine. PVH WAS . . . I reapeat WAS a great roll model of how to treat your employees. You are making a mistake. You had better listen to your staff and wake-up before you loose these awesome employees. THEY are who has made you what you are today – NOT you – they. LISTEN!!! Has all concern for our health care providers gone out the window. They have no rights it seems. They are TO DO AS YOU mandate? WOW!!! I am really upset about PVH turning on human rights. I rarely have time to read any blog or comments, but I have read every single comment and applaud all of you who are standing for what is right. It is about time the SILENT MAJORITY gets heard and makes a noise so loud that the right thing is accomplished. I pray that no employee (who has been INTIMATED already) develops a reaction or sign/symptom to any of the side effects of this inadequate vaccine. I feel this is criminal requirement. SMG is truely not informed it seems. However, I am impressed they have allowed this open forum for discussion. Maybe, after they do further research and take the feelings of PVH employees to heart, they will graciously reconsider there first abrupt and premature VACCINE mandate. PVH employees – keep it up. There are many of us out there behind you. SMG – please reconsider!
@Michelle – I just wanted to make sure you do realize that all of the comments on here are from LAST YEAR. PVHS went ahead with their flu vaccine requirement for employees last year just as they are this year. So much for LISTENING to their employees as Rulon so emphatically espoused in one of his latest bloggings. To my knowledge, there’s no fight over this anymore. Status quo, go with the flow. Even Denver Health is requiring the flu vax this year. Sickening that an employer would require a medical procedure which carries risk as a condition of employment all under the guise of “patient safety”. Like you are going to know if every Tom, Dick and Harry who walks in the door had a flu shot and AS IF THEY WORK!!! LOL! If anyone IS interested in standing up for what’s right, you know where to reach me.
For those interested, and we know who isn’t, here’s some great info:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2010/04/27/flu-vaccine-not-effective-in-elderly/
Research suggests flu vaccine doesn’t prevent deaths among the elderly
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9438511/ns/health-cold_and_flu/t/flu-shots-not-effective-elderly-thought/
Flu shots not as effective in elderly as thought
http://orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v04n17.shtml
Flu Shots For The Elderly Are Ineffective
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7249687/Flu-jab-for-the-elderly-may-be-a-waste-of-time-review-of-evidence.html
Flu jab for the elderly may be a waste of time: review of evidence
(not to mention added danger with injecting disease material and mercury into them)
http://www.whale.to/a/yazflu.html
The Flu Vaccine Saga: The Latest Twist
http://vaccinationdangers.wordpress.com/
webpages on vaccine dangers
http://www.wellwithin1.com/flu.htm my page on flu vaccine and flu
http://www.vaccinationnews.com/node/19956
Calculating U.S. Influenza Deaths
By: Dr. F. Edward Yazbak
excerpts,,,,,,,,,,,,,
“It is not clear how the specific statistic – 36,000 American deaths a year “on average” – was formulated or from what sources it was derived. It seems to have just suddenly appeared, like a rabbit from a top hat. It certainly could have been any other number of thousands of cases. After all, what are a few thousand deaths up or down? ”
“Considering that the U.S. population was around 226.5 million in 1980, 1.5 deaths per 100.000 would translate to around 4,000 deaths that year. So here we have official CDC statistics listing around 4,000 deaths, unconfirmed by viral cultures, from influenza and influenza-related complications in 1980, a banner year, and maybe 18 or 257 in 2001 and the propaganda machine is still talking about “an average of 36,000 deaths” a year. “
Remember how many of you didn’t like PVHS’ flu vaccine policy in 2010? All healthcare workers who don’t want to be forced into mandatory flu vaccines need to read below and get comments in by tomorrow, Jan 17th, 5:00 pm EST. They can be emailed.
Read here for background but REMEMBER, COMMENTING ON THE OSHA WEBSITE IS NOT THE GOAL. Feel free to do so, but see below for where comments need to go for actual consideration:
http://blogs.hcpro.com/osha/2011/12/feds-asking-for-healthcare-worker-flu-shot-advice/comment-page-2/#comment-3179
Read here for further information and guidance regarding the commenting process:
http://www.hhs.gov/nvpo/nvac/subgroups/healthcare_personnel_influenza_vacc_subgroup.html
Comments can be submitted electronically to Jennifer Gordon, National Vaccine Program Office at: nvpo@hhs.gov. By mail, comments can be sent to:
National Vaccine Program Office, US Dept. of Health and Human Services
Attn: Healthcare Personnel Influenza Vaccination c/o Jennifer Gordon
200 Independence Avenue, SW
Room 733-G.3
Washington, DC 20201